Armanment for the P38L

[Traveler]

Can you show me a photo of a Lockheed production 38 that came out of the factory with the 4 hardpoints for the 500 pounders?

I've only ever seen them on MTO 38L's that were modified in the field.  The largest loadout  carried in the ETO were 2000 pounders on a couple of occasions and they didn't use them more because of the special bracing needed and they were not more effective then the 1000 pounders they normally carried on the 9th AF 38s from October 44 til the end.  I've never seen a PTO 38 carrying 4 bombs or with 4 hard points for them.  They didn't carry the rocket trees much either.  And I've never seen anything to show the rocket trees made it to the ETO, just some 49th FG P38Ls in mid 45 in the PTO.

I have all the 38 group histories available, and everything else written on the 38 that I can get my hands on and I've not seen 38L's, outside of the field modified birds in the MTO with the bomb loadout you talk about.

I have never seen photos.  What I saw was a set of documents titled “ Lockheed factory Specification P38L”.  I also read about special brackets needed for the wooden 300 Gal. external fuel tanks but not for the 2000lb.  The 300 gal fuel tanks were used to ferry the aircraft from the states to the UK via Greenland and Iceland.

[Guppy35]

I have never seen photos.  What I saw was a set of documents titled “ Lockheed factory Specification P38L”.  I also read about special brackets needed for the wooden 300 Gal. external fuel tanks but not for the 2000lb.  The 300 gal fuel tanks were used to ferry the aircraft from the states to the UK via Greenland and Iceland.

OK.  I'm guessing it was something they didn't follow through on then.  The 2000 pounders had to have wooden bracing too.  I talked to a 38 driver who dropped 2000 pounders and they didn't like them for the reasons mentioned.  The wooden bracing was a pain too and they had to drop them just so to avoid damaging their own 38s.  They dropped them twice.  They commonly carried the 1000 pounders after October 44 and felt like the bang for the buck was about the same with them as it was with the 2000 pounders and it was safer and easier to use the 1000 pounders.

I think it comes down to what they could do in theory and what they did for real.

[Delirium]

I think it comes down to what they could do in theory and what they did for real.

I think this would be a prime time to post how many bottles of liquor a P38 could carry.

*hint hint*

[Wingnutt]

time to pull the 50s out of the tail of the lanc then?


 

[Karnak]

time to pull the 50s out of the tail of the lanc then?


 

Why?  The turret with the .50s was a standard, factory turret.  Yes, most Lanc's had four .303s, but the .50s were not that uncommon.

[Guppy35]

I think this would be a prime time to post how many bottles of liquor a P38 could carry.

*hint hint*

Leland Blair and "Horrible" Hagar of the 80th FS determined that you could get 58 bottles of scotch into a 38 to bring back to the squadron.  Five different spaces were used.  The space normally used for tech orders and operating manuals, the space for the 50 cal ammunition cans, the space for the 20mm cannon ammo, and the space for the ejected 20mm cannon ammo along with the radio and hydraulic spaces in the cockpit.

80th Headhunters were one of the most well lubricated squadron in the PTO as well as one of the most successful

[LLogann]

There are WAYYYYY too many hijacks in here...............

But I am for all of them! 

   +1

[Masherbrum]

The 2000 pounder was rarely carried. The pilots didn't much care for it and a 1000 pounder was more then enough bang for the buck.  I'd like to see the 4 500 pounder rack system that wasn't a field mod too.  Lots of photos of in the field mods, but I haven't seen any of a standard 4 rack set up on the 3L8

Not many folks on here realize what the concussion is like, from a 500lb or even a 250lb bomb.   Let alone a 1k or 2k.   Excellent reply Dan.

[Ack-Ack]

Leland Blair and "Horrible" Hagar of the 80th FS determined that you could get 58 bottles of scotch into a 38 to bring back to the squadron.  Five different spaces were used.  The space normally used for tech orders and operating manuals, the space for the 50 cal ammunition cans, the space for the 20mm cannon ammo, and the space for the ejected 20mm cannon ammo along with the radio and hydraulic spaces in the cockpit.

80th Headhunters were one of the most well lubricated squadron in the PTO as well as one of the most successful

I can't recall the name of the pilot off hand but in his biography of his war time experiences as a young Spitfire pilot during the BoB and later fighting over Malta, he found out that you could carry enough cigarretes in a Spitfire V for his entire squadron.  This was discovered when he was about to launch off a CV off of Malta when he noticed his ground crew had removed all the ammo and replaced them with cigarettes.  He also mentioned that when they launched, they were starting to be under attack from the Germans and if he got bounced, he was SOL since his ammo was replaced by the cigarettes.


ack-ack

[Guppy35]

I can't recall the name of the pilot off hand but in his biography of his war time experiences as a young Spitfire pilot during the BoB and later fighting over Malta, he found out that you could carry enough cigarretes in a Spitfire V for his entire squadron.  This was discovered when he was about to launch off a CV off of Malta when he noticed his ground crew had removed all the ammo and replaced them with cigarettes.  He also mentioned that when they launched, they were starting to be under attack from the Germans and if he got bounced, he was SOL since his ammo was replaced by the cigarettes.


ack-ack

One of the Spit XII pilots I knew mentioned that a Belgian pilot from 41 squadron used those same spaces to load soap, TP etc for his family when the squadron moved to the continent.

[Masherbrum]

Leland Blair and "Horrible" Hagar of the 80th FS determined that you could get 58 bottles of scotch into a 38 to bring back to the squadron.  Five different spaces were used.  The space normally used for tech orders and operating manuals, the space for the 50 cal ammunition cans, the space for the 20mm cannon ammo, and the space for the ejected 20mm cannon ammo along with the radio and hydraulic spaces in the cockpit.

80th Headhunters were one of the most well lubricated squadron in the PTO as well as one of the most successful

I can't recall the name of the pilot off hand but in his biography of his war time experiences as a young Spitfire pilot during the BoB and later fighting over Malta, he found out that you could carry enough cigarretes in a Spitfire V for his entire squadron.  This was discovered when he was about to launch off a CV off of Malta when he noticed his ground crew had removed all the ammo and replaced them with cigarettes.  He also mentioned that when they launched, they were starting to be under attack from the Germans and if he got bounced, he was SOL since his ammo was replaced by the cigarettes.

ack-ack

One of the Spit XII pilots I knew mentioned that a Belgian pilot from 41 squadron used those same spaces to load soap, TP etc for his family when the squadron moved to the continent.

     Absolutely hilarious.   

[Ack-Ack]

One of the Spit XII pilots I knew mentioned that a Belgian pilot from 41 squadron used those same spaces to load soap, TP etc for his family when the squadron moved to the continent.

Finally got home and managed to find the book I was talking about.  First Light: The True Story of the Boy Who Became a Man in the War-Torn Skies above Britain, by George Wellum.  I guess the main reasons they removed the ammo and loaded up cigarettes instead was to save weight and to raise morale on Malta since they were under constant attack and were almost out of smokes on the island.


ack-ack

[Nemisis]

Ack-Ack, how were the HARV's carried on the B-25? In the bombay or something?

[Bronk]

Ok My Mk XII  alarm went off.... who hit it?