Read

[SFRT - Frenchy]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
No RAM, if you go back and look at the film you will not see what you are claiming.

First off, the person who made the film, didn't start looping at normal minimum rotation speed like you think. They waited until around 250mph+ before they allowed the N1K2 to rotate off the runway. This is very important.

Plus they used an elevated runway (3k or 5k I can't remember), and once they were off the end of the runway, and did several loops their altitude actually dropped below that of the starting base altitude (ie if they would have started at sea level they would have crashed before completing that number of loops). Which is another point to consider.

Lets keep the facts straight and the propaganda to a minimum.

http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/nikidemo.ahf

[Verm], you guys intrigued me, so I grabbed a Niki 50% fuel offline and went for a test flight. I accelerated to 150 I think (up to you to check), I went straight up to loop it a couple of times, then I went for tailstalls, I noticed the plane was winging over but I still had control of it once nose went down (convinient).
I did a dive too from the alt I was, good acceleration, notice my start alt and end spped. I did a high G flat turn, have a look to my turn radius   I still could be precise enought to fly under hangar. Just before landing I went vertical again and tried to spin it by applying full back pressure and rudder at the stall nose up. I could barrely achieve a starting of spin. I idled throttle and landed. It can land on a CV w/out arresting hooks for sure too  

I'm not squeaking if it's normal or not, but it sure is a wonder plane, especially if flown by an experten.

Any coments on the film Vermillon, Ram, any1?

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
On the issue of consecutive looping and gaining alt... Would you expect a plane to be able to maintain a constant speed at the bottom of the loop?  Maybe even pick up a couple mph?  If this was the case, even if looping, it is gaining E.  Thus it should be able to climb while looping.

Now, the issue of 3 consecutive immelmans and still gaining  speed is completely different.  Like someone said above... lets see film.

AKDejaVu

As I said, DejaVu, I find hard to believe that what is seen in bloom's film is believable. But almost everyone that saw it and posted in bloom's thread said it was OK. I dont say is porked, I say taht I find it hard to believe.

Frenchy, IMO (please note this is a PARTICULAR opinion), the N1K2 E retention is way too good. And I keep on saying that a plane with 2000hp and a weight comparable with that of the spit should feel the torque more strongly than what it does right now.

But I seem to be almost alone in this perception, so its clear I must be wrong.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-10-2001).]

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Saw my film Ram? Should take care of the 250 MPH pull up and 3-5K alt argument  

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:
Saw my film Ram? Should take care of the 250 MPH pull up and 3-5K alt argument  

Frenchy, I have reached the conclussion that is useless to say anything more. 90% of the people of this board thinks that the nik is OK, so if they are so sure, let them have the UFO on the MA. What is me, I run away each time I see one.

[Tac]

1 n1k is jumped by 2 P-38s and a Spitfire. N1k does 1 immelman to avoid first bouncer (P38), levels on top of immelman for a second, then does ANOTHER immelman to avoid the 2nd P-38 that bounced it (me). While I go over the top I see the n1k level again and point its nose towards me. Then he immelmans AGAIN to avoid the spitfire.

Fight ends as the 2 P-38s are shot down by the ufo and spitfire I dont know what the heck happened to it, never saw the pilot get a kill while I pulled my chute near the water.

Film? Sure, gimme a sec, ill have to lower myself to fly that crate. Gnnnn......

*Tac Last reported running naked across the runway with a paper airplane on his hand doing wooshy noises*

[Jekyll]

RAM, don't sweat it too much about the N1K, it won't do you any good.

Over the last few days I've been trolling through the BBS picking up the names of those who have consistently posted that there is nothing wrong with the N1K.

You'd be amazed how many of them fly at least 50% of their total sorties in the N1K2  

And most of their other sorties are in the CHog  

------------------
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11

[brady]

  Every time I get caught be a F4U brandishing a quartet of 20mm hispano's from hell and wind up riding my piering plane while it plumates to the planet I grit my teeth and curse it's uberness...The fact of the matter is that's the way it was and sometimes the truth hurts(your ratio).
  Every time I get in the N1K2-J and engage an enemy I marvel at the piss pore trajectory of the Type 99II compared to the Hispano's from hell....the truth
  Every time I am the N1K2-J and dam smart P-51 pilots use's his speed advantage over me it bit's why can't he be dumb like that last guy and try and tun fight me me at 5k?!??!....

  The grass is always greener that's the whole truth and nothing but the truth,sell what U will but the finding of the truth is what it is all about, moreover the realization of it and the acceptance...Learn your plane of choice(s) and use it to it's best advantage and don't whine because the other guy knows his better than U. learn it or die trying.

Brady

------------------
 

[This message has been edited by brady (edited 02-10-2001).]

[AKDejaVu]

Ironic Jekyll.  Strange that someone that hasn't flown the N1K since 1.04 came out would deam himself such an expert on its flight model or killing prowess.

Typical LW.

AKDejaVu

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Ironic Jekyll.  Strange that someone that hasn't flown the N1K since 1.04 came out would deam himself such an expert on its flight model or killing prowess.

Typical LW.

AKDejaVu

LOL he only says that the major part of the people yelling the N1K2 FM is correct are dedicated niki riders, and you answer this way?

typical AKDejaVu.  


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-10-2001).]

[Torgo]

The grand champions of overclaiming have to be US Bomber gunners in Europe...almost all oversight and review (such as that applied to US fighter pilots) was removed for morale purposes...it was easier to go out and get torn to shreds if you believed you were giving as good as you got.

Also, it suited the political purposes of the bomber faction..just as the idea that Midway was won by USAAF level bombers was the standard story till after the war (Or that a lone B-17 sank the Japanese Battleship Haruna off the Phillipines in 1941..this was accepted as fact and the pilot (who did not survive the mission) deified.

They'd routinely shoot down the entire LW fighter strength in the West in a week :-)

A single 190 bursts into flame making a run through a B-17 box? Every gunner shooting at it claims and gets a kill...there's 20 LW shot down right there :-)

[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 02-10-2001).]

[Jigster]

I think the only big concern with the N1K2-J come from those flaps...it not only reshapes the chamber of the wing, the butterfly flaps make the N1K2, for the most part, a biplane, when extended. Two seperate flying surfaces are created once the flaps drop, and that seems like a reasonable amount of drag not being developed through manuvers.


There are a couple of things not accounted for, namely instant deployment...that didn't happen. The automatic flap system was based on AoA and speed, and took a few seconds to deploy according to speed and AoA. Second, there are some other form of flaps on N1K2 in addition to the accounted-for butterfly flaps, already worked into the flight model. It's and extra system that was not on the real one-- there were no other flap systems. I'm not sure what they are suppose to represent...as they add drag and no real lift benefits. The butterfly flaps deployed automatically for landing as well.

- Bess

[Karnak]

RAM,
I can loop the La5 endlessly and gain altitude with it while I do.

Is it f****d up too?

I do fly N1K2s once in a while, but most of my kills are in the A6M5b.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
-Karnak

[fscott]

HA HA HA I knew when I posted that article I was gonna start another uber-Niki flame thread! HA HA HA!

So what was my point?  I wonder if this had happened in AH, how many of the Hellcat pilots would come immediatley to the BBS and post about how overly-uber the Niki is. I know all about Saburo Sakai's engagements. That's because he was overly-uber.


fscott

[Jigster]

I did some testing as well.

The N1K2 can maintain a 2.5k ROC, making a left-hand spiral with full right rudder, at 100mph, right off the runway, with WEP. (As a comparison the G10 can maintain a 3.0k ROC in the same situation)

From 300mph the N1K2 can make two full Immels and come out level at an avg 125mph.
Also, the N1K2 can make make 3 Immels from 300mph, albeit the last one has to be completed with a stall. It's very easy to hammerhead instead of brining the nose over after two Immels.

From 400mph the N1K2 can make 3 full Immels and come out at @ 110mph, and can the nose can usually be raised enough for an additional hammerhead. I got the nose over for a fourth Immel during one set.

This is from sea level. From 4k It can accelerate to 385mph in a 0g powerdive. Starting at sea level, the 300mph immels have an exit altitude @3.5k. From  400mph, exit altitude is 4.5k.

Using the G10 for comparison again, it's exit altitudes are generally the same, but can only make two Immels from 300mph, and two Immels and a hammerhead from 400mph. From 4k, the G10 accelerates to 370mph in 0g powerdive.

The N1K2 certainly does not gain energy in the vertical, but it has very slow bleed rate, even under constant G's. The exit speed and altitude from 300mph form sea level of a  vertical eight is about 125mph and 3.5k. These are from 5-3G constant G's until the speed drops below 165mph, where this is no longer possible.

will post film later if I have time.

- Bess

[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 02-10-2001).]

[Tac]

Well, tonight I was defending A49.

Got a N1k up to 8k, see an enemy n1k, 2 b17's and a B-26 at 12k (I was at 8k).

N1k dives on me I do the ufo manouver and corckskew 90 degrees UP for about 2000 ft, then dive on him (my speed was still above 200 mph), 1 ping and his wing comes off. I let him spiral down, barely under control.

I climb up to the bombers, I get the B26 with a low 12 HO, it blew apart with one short burst, keep going, see a low 17 (abot 2k below me), aim to intercept on his path, end up doing a side-pass, his guns ping me a LOT (FIRST time I've EVER experienced my plane receive so much buff lead and not blow up or lose entire components), no damage, 1 burst, B17 explodes.

2nd b17 was smoking (I had jumped it earlier in a P-38 and hit 1 of its engines, buff guns pinged me once and my p38 blew apart), so I do a High 12 pass, he pings me as I twist under him, then I pull UP b17 fills my sights, ball turret pinging me, 1 burst, hit the wing, it falls off. B17 dies

I then get jumped by an F4U, I do the magic upwards corkscrew, F4U overshoots, im at 100 mph (and no loss of control nor any problems turning my plane, which was its nose pointed to the stars), twist it downwards, see the F4U on the bottom part of his split S.. I dive after him. In no time I catch up, then hog levels and then the hog begins to outdistance me... I notice im too far from the field and let him go, immelman at 480 mph, nose back to field, speed is about 400-390 mph (it was a HARD pull on that stick).

In field I see 2 goons about to land, I kill one that was really close to ground and in the process of shooting it my stick spikes and I auger into the dirt.

So 1 n1k flown in a point-and shoot manner (except for the evasives when the n1k and chog jumped me) not only screwed a coordinated field take, it got 1 n1k, 2 b17's 1 b26 and 1 goon and I STILL had around 300 rnds of ammo on those guns.

Its WING COMMANDER all over again! LONG LIVE THE N1KHAI!    

49 fell later on with a heavy cap that faced 2 defenders only.

The n1k has SERIOUS issues in this game. I dont know what it is, I dont know if the plane really was like that or not, but I know that in AH it is THE ride of choice to hone those X-Wing skills.