Aircraft AirSpeed

[TequilaChaser]

take a look at this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ55LmRwkQg

what am I looking for? that video is showing an F6f-3 btw

I first saw this video back in the 90's when it was on Zeno's Warbirds website

[FLS]

I know that FLS but the stall speed I gave was a clean aircraft with 25% fuel. So when you start adding bombs, rockets, ammo, more fuel what happens? so, I'll ask again how do you take an airplane off below the stall speed of one that has no armaments and only 25% fuel.

http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/hist-ac/f6f-5.pdf

Copy of report from a comparison test using an FW-190, F4U-1D, F6F-3
http://home.comcast.net/~markw4/index1.html

If you read carefully you'll notice that the lower speed was with full flaps. That's why I mentioned configuration as well as weight. So far the AH performance has matched the POH.

I don't know if it's a factor in this case but you also have ground effect when taking off.

[Rolex]

The film is wrong. It should be obvious that the take-off speed cannot possibly be 15 MPH less than landing condition, power-off stall.

The plane in the film was a very early F6F-3 (note the cockpit windows and two lower cowl flaps that were eliminated after Bu No 39999), so it was an introduction to the airplane. It is certainly not reference material or applicable to the model in Aces High. There are many inconsistencies in airspeed indicating with the F6F, as others have noted, and it shows in this film.

The AH model looks to be an excellent representation, based on the original F6F-5 test report.

[Gooss]

Search the BBS for HiTech's responses to tedious challenges of this sort.

You're not the first to think he found something no one else has ever considered.

I'm guessing HiTech has done a bit more research than you.

HONK!
Gooss

[bj229r]

About 60 Knots  translats to about 70 MPH but I noticed that the F6F I flew with 25% fuel was about 100 MPH to get off the gound.  that's a major difference to me.

You will never enjoy this game

[Traveler]

You will never enjoy this game

Your statement is 100% wrong.  I have a great time with my squad.  I have enjoyed playing this game and others like it for the last 30 years.

[FLS]

What sim were you flying in 1980?

[Traveler]

What sim were you flying in 1980?

B727-200  Eastern Airlines.

[FLS]

Did you get any kills?   

[Badboy]

Your statement is 100% wrong.  I have a great time with my squad.  I have enjoyed playing this game and others like it for the last 30 years.

I'm curious, If you have been playing games like this one for 30 years, you must have played Air Warrior from the beginning? Do you recall that it had Full and Relaxed Realism arenas? If so you will recall that even full realism then was a lot worse than we have now. Games like Falcon3 boasted the most realistic flight model publically available, claiming that some of the code in the Hi Fidelity flight model was used in military simulations, but even that flight model was flawed. Any flight model in any game you or I have ever owned can be picked apart for some reason or other... Since we have both been doing this for 30 years, we both know that...

So I'm curious, after 30 years of seeing the same claims, why have you suddenly lost your balance over this now?

Badboy 

[Traveler]

I'm curious, If you have been playing games like this one for 30 years, you must have played Air Warrior from the beginning? Do you recall that it had Full and Relaxed Realism arenas? If so you will recall that even full realism then was a lot worse than we have now. Games like Falcon3 boasted the most realistic flight model publically available, claiming that some of the code in the Hi Fidelity flight model was used in military simulations, but even that flight model was flawed. Any flight model in any game you or I have ever owned can be picked apart for some reason or other... Since we have both been doing this for 30 years, we both know that...

So I'm curious, after 30 years of seeing the same claims, why have you suddenly lost your balance over this now?

Badboy 

I haven't lost my balance.  I asked for help in the help forum for the specifics about how to set maneuvering flaps in the P38 when the POH says 1/2 flaps, what setting in AH provides the benefits  of a lower stall speed and increased lift.    Murdr answered the question.  I did ask in another forum the "Wish" forum that the model of the P38 for flap deployment be changed to be more accurate.  If asking for help or making a "Wish" post makes one unbalanced in your eyes, so be it. 

[Badboy]

I asked for help in the help forum for the specifics about how to set maneuvering flaps in the P38 when the POH says 1/2 flaps, what setting in AH provides the benefits of a lower stall speed and increased lift.

Perhaps you haven't noticed that the way you have been posing your questions, with reference to the POH, and particularly in view of your other threads, has unfortunately given the impression that your questions are disingenuous.

It could easily appear as though you were simply looking for another way to pursue your explicitly stated agenda for modelling changes. I have to confess, it certainly didn't look to me as though you were genuinely seeking help.

But, if you are, I can tell you everything you could possibly wish to know about the flaps on the P-38 in Aces High. I have EM diagrams for the P-38 in almost every configuration possible in the game, and I can tell you the sustained turn rate and radius for every flap setting possible in the game and explain how to optimise those settings for the kind of fight you are in. But here is the thing… Most folk who ask genuine questions are actually interested in that kind of information, they want to optimise their performance in the game, but you seem to be more interested in comparing with the POH.

So, if you really want to know how to work the flaps in AH to optimise performance in the game, I can help… Your call.

Badboy

[Traveler]

Perhaps you haven't noticed that the way you have been posing your questions, with reference to the POH, and particularly in view of your other threads, has unfortunately given the impression that your questions are disingenuous.

It could easily appear as though you were simply looking for another way to pursue your explicitly stated agenda for modelling changes. I have to confess, it certainly didn't look to me as though you were genuinely seeking help.

But, if you are, I can tell you everything you could possibly wish to know about the flaps on the P-38 in Aces High. I have EM diagrams for the P-38 in almost every configuration possible in the game, and I can tell you the sustained turn rate and radius for every flap setting possible in the game and explain how to optimise those settings for the kind of fight you are in. But here is the thing… Most folk who ask genuine questions are actually interested in that kind of information, they want to optimise their performance in the game, but you seem to be more interested in comparing with the POH.

So, if you really want to know how to work the flaps in AH to optimise performance in the game, I can help… Your call.

Badboy

Murdr has provided the most authoritative response to my question.  One question that I still have and perhaps you have the answer or can point me to a source is.  The flaps on the P38 when extended added how much square footage to the effective wing area?

thanks

[Badboy]

The flaps on the P38 when extended added how much square footage to the effective wing area?

If you are trying to do some calculations, increased values of coefficient of lift with the Fowler flaps extended were always based on the area of the basic wing. So if you have Lift and Drag polars for the P-38's Fowler flaps the calculations should be done based on the 327.5 square ft. However, the area of the extended Fowler flaps on the P-38 is 42.6 square ft.

Hope that helps.

Badboy
 

[Traveler]

If you are trying to do some calculations, increased values of coefficient of lift with the Fowler flaps extended were always based on the area of the basic wing. So if you have Lift and Drag polars for the P-38's Fowler flaps the calculations should be done based on the 327.5 square ft. However, the area of the extended Fowler flaps on the P-38 is 42.6 square ft.

Hope that helps.

Badboy
 

Thanks, so 42.6 square feet divided by ½  is 21.3 Square feet or the amount of flap described by the POH that yields the best benefits of increased lift and reduces stall speed for the Combat or Maneuvering flaps.

In AH that 42.6 square feet is divided into 5 equal segments of 8.52 Square feet each.

Hit the “Q” key one time and you get 8.52 Square feet of flap
Hit the “Q” key again and you have 17.04 Square feet deployed
The third tap of the “Q” key gives you a total of 25.56 Square feet. 
Fourth Notch of flaps provides you with a total of 34.08 Square feet of flap
Fifth Notch of flaps provides you with a total of   42.6  Square feet

So the closest flap setting within the game to the POH recommended combat flaps setting is either the second or third notch.  Which is what Murdr provided in his response.  He suggested the second notch for airspeeds between 225 and 250 and the third for speeds below 225.