Jet Performance Graphs

[MORAY37]

See Rule #2

[Delirium]

edit: I have to be nice.

[Bronk]

See Rule #4

[MORAY37]

See Rule #4

[rabbidrabbit]

Eagl,  Does just a couple degrees really make that much of an issue?  Unless I misread, it sounds like trying to use an aerial sighting mechanism for ground strafing was their biggest trouble.

[sluggish]

Eagl,  Does just a couple degrees really make that much of an issue?  Unless I misread, it sounds like trying to use an aerial sighting mechanism for ground strafing was their biggest trouble.

I would like to hear eagl's answer on this too but I would think that the limited range of the guns coupled with the extreme speeds involved would require the plane to be at a perilous angle at a perilous speed perilously close to the ground.  I wouldn't want to do it either...

[sluggish]

No, there's nothing personal directed at Eagl.  I did not attack him.

You really gotta be kidding me, with respect to your service, which is a few years back, if I recall.

What does that mean?  It either means:  1.  He's too old and senile to know what he's talking about, or  2.  He retired and completely turned his back on something that took up a large portion of his life and doesn't know what he's talking about...

For some reason you are calling into question the reliability of his knowledge...  I guess only you know why..

[MORAY37]

Eagl,  Does just a couple degrees really make that much of an issue?  Unless I misread, it sounds like trying to use an aerial sighting mechanism for ground strafing was their biggest trouble.

I was surprised to hear they had retained the canted arrangement in the F15E, I wasn't aware of that.  I had talked at length with a friend in the Air Force (-16 pilot) regarding it, and how hard it was to strafe.

Of course, he was relating this position from hearsay, so attack my post in the relevant manner you see fit.

[sluggish]

Of course, he was relating this position from hearsay, so attack my post in the relevant manner you see fit.

Of course... if you were basing and stating your position as pure conjecture and opinion...  and stated it as such.. no one would have given you a hard time at all...

[MORAY37]

What does that mean?  It either means:  1.  He's too old and senile to know what he's talking about, or  2.  He retired and completely turned his back on something that took up a large portion of his life and doesn't know what he's talking about...

For some reason you are calling into question the reliability of his knowledge...  I guess only you know why..

No, it means neither.  But continue attempting.  

I would like to know his opinion on the Irbus-E and the MSP-418K and KNIRTI Sorbstiya jam pod.  All three have been touted as significant upgrades, and the KNIRTI is deemed better than western equivalents, by analysis.

[MORAY37]

Of course... if you were basing and stating your position as pure conjecture and opinion...  and stated it as such.. no one would have given you a hard time at all...

Yes they would have.  It's just a bunch of personal issues carried over and over and over, from different threads.  

I will simply not subscribe to the opinion that the Su-27 sucks because the Mig-25 sucks, as was postulated by Gray. 

[sluggish]

See Rule #4

[MORAY37]

See Rule #4

[Grayeagle]

Amazingly, it's western analysis that is saying these things, ...

'western analysts' have been saying the same things for decades.
People like this were saying that 'Desert Storm' in Iraq would be another Vietnam, Sad Sack did have the 4th largest army in the world after all, experienced vets for the most part with their years of fighting Iran, and so on ad infinitum.
We had an untested battle tank and no actual combat experienced units, all our Vietnam experienced guys were out/retired, gone ..
I mean ... we were so gonna be toast.

They (along with Sad Sack) had very little idea of the actual capabilities we had.
Sad Sack actually did launch the 'mother of all battles' .. it was destroyed before making any impact at all.
Guess that was blind luck. Or .. maybe not.

Perhaps the analysts do us a favor by setting up opponents for a hard fall based on false information.
They make us look 'good' when the shootin starts.

I do know that every time the shooting starts the 'analysts' are proven so wrong it's laughable.

So ya .. Su27, Mig 35 .. prolly good airplanes, *might* be as good as an F-15, (although I doubt that)

".. McDonnell Douglas designed in 1967 to meet the service's need for a dedicated air superiority fighter.
The Eagle first flew in July 1972.."

-cough- er.. wtg.
Pray they never have to meet what we have now.

-GE aka Frank

[eagl]

Eagl,  Does just a couple degrees really make that much of an issue?  Unless I misread, it sounds like trying to use an aerial sighting mechanism for ground strafing was their biggest trouble.

There is nothing wrong in theory about using a fixed reticle for strafing.  The angle on the gun really does present a different challenge.  If you don't mind the bullets arriving at the target with very little energy and being really inaccurate, then it's not even that big of a deal.  The gun angle apparently makes enough of a difference in A2A combat that they included it as an intentional design feature in what may arguably be the best fighter ever produced, from multiple perspectives.  In terms of impact when initially fielded, to versatility and design longevity, I don't know of any other fighter ever produced that even comes close.  Even now, any time an allied nation has the cash to buy a no-holds-barred strike fighter, they go with an F-15E, and Boeing has done some work on bringing down the radar cross section for a future variant, sort of like how the super hornet has a significantly smaller RCS than the original F-18 even though it is a bigger aircraft.  

My point isn't to brag on the F-15 though, it is to say that when MacD built the thing, they tilted the gun up.  Since the rest of the plane was so well designed, I can't imagine that they did it just to make it darn near impossible to strafe with the thing.

Even with the computing gunsight in the strike eagle, strafing isn't easy.  You have to choose between a totally messed up attack profile with a steep dive angle and early abort range, or a very very long range shot with reduced accuracy and the probability that the cannon rounds won't fuse properly so you end up scattering around a lot of rounds that end up being essentially live grenades all over the place for kids to pick up and turn into IEDs.