Author Topic: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire  (Read 7393 times)

Offline Kev367th

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2010, 02:19:13 PM »
Two reasons for Spit XII -

a) First production Griffon engined Spit. (important milestone)
b) Because Dan wants it. :-)

That plus an Clipped, Clapped, and Cropped LF.Vc with a 55M completes the major marks.

F.21 would be nice as a perked Spit, but not essential.
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Offline bustr

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2010, 06:34:36 PM »
Did some reading last night on the Spit XII. Looks like it would be a more irritating Spit16 for the "I Hate The Spit16" crowd.

*******************
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-XII.html

*******************

Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment
Boscombe Down
4 August 1943
Spitfire F Mk. XII D.P.845
(Griffon VI)
Climb and level speed performance
and position error correction with a Griffon VI engine

Summary


Climb Performance

Max. rate of climb in M.S. supercharger gear 4,960 ft/min.@ 1,900 ft. 
Max. rate of climb in F.S. supercharger gear 4,300 ft/min.@ 10,200 ft. 


Level Speed Performance

In M.S. supercharger gear 375 m.p.h. at 4,600 ft. 
In F.S. supercharger gear 389 m.p.h. at 12,800 ft. 
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Plawranc

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2010, 09:10:07 PM »
I think that EVERY Spit model that saw combat in WW2 should be IN THIS GAME.

Just so I have an excuse to systematically PWN you all  :devil

IMA TEZTING ZE UB3R SPISFIRE FOR T3H LOLZ  :rofl
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Offline Plawranc

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2010, 09:11:00 PM »
In short

 :aok + 99999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999 ,99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999,9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999,9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

face it, 9 recurring till I'm  :old:
DaPacman - 71 Squadron RAF

"There are only two things that make life worth living. Fornication and Aviation"

Offline stealth

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2010, 10:29:59 PM »
In short

 :aok + 99999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999 ,99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999,9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999,9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

face it, 9 recurring till I'm  :old:
OK then :bolt:
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2010, 12:49:52 AM »
Did some reading last night on the Spit XII. Looks like it would be a more irritating Spit16 for the "I Hate The Spit16" crowd.

*******************
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-XII.html

*******************

Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment
Boscombe Down
4 August 1943
Spitfire F Mk. XII D.P.845
(Griffon VI)
Climb and level speed performance
and position error correction with a Griffon VI engine

Summary


Climb Performance

Max. rate of climb in M.S. supercharger gear 4,960 ft/min.@ 1,900 ft. 
Max. rate of climb in F.S. supercharger gear 4,300 ft/min.@ 10,200 ft. 


Level Speed Performance

In M.S. supercharger gear 375 m.p.h. at 4,600 ft. 
In F.S. supercharger gear 389 m.p.h. at 12,800 ft. 


DP845 was the prototype for the Spit XII.  The testing results you show there are for the Griffon VI which actually was used in the Seafire XV which was the RN version of the XII.  The XII had the Griffon III and IV.

The XII was put into limited production to combat the hit and run 190s that were coming in at low level to bomb towns along the English coast.  In essence it was a Spitfire V airframe that had a single stage Griffon III/IV as it's engine.  They clipped the wings as it was purely a low level interceptor.  41 Squadron got the first XIIs in February 43 and 91 Squadron followed shortly afterwards.  They essentially put an end to the low level 190 raids on May 25, 1943 when 91 intercepted a raid and shot down 5 190s near Hastings.

The XIIs then operated as a Wing from Tangmere from mid summer 43 until early 44.  They were the highest scoring Spitfire Wing in the Fall of 43 and had their best day on October 20, 1943 when they shot down 9 for no loss.  They were later credited with 10th kill that a pilot hadn't claimed as he hadn't shot it, but flown the badun into the ground.  In this instance it wasn't over claiming as postwar checks showed their claims were accurate.

91 gave up their XIIs for XIVs in early 44.  41 Squadron flew the XII until September 44 when they transitioned to the XIV.  They flew anti-Diver patrols in the summer of 44 against the V-1s and were good at it.  They scored their last kills on September 3, 1944 when Terry Spencer in MB822 EB-B and Pat Coleman in MB858 EB-D shot down two 190s.  Spencer's claim turned out to be high scoring LW Ace "Bully" Lang, who was killed.

Where the XVI was used in late 44-45 as a ground attack bird and didn't mix it up with the 109s and 190s, the XII was there in the middle of things in 1943 and were very effective against the 190s and 109s that tried to fight.

The normal tactics for the XII pilots was to troll below the German formations hoping to suck them down.  They would then turn into them and take them on.  The LW birds for a time stopped coming down :)

I spent a lot of time corresponding with Spit drivers from both 91 and 41 in the 1980's and met a lot of them.  They were a great bunch of guys.  Sadly most are gone now.

The Spit XII drivers of 41 squadron in 1985 at RAF Coltishall for a reunion.  The young CorkyJr is the only non-Spit pilot in the photo.



DP845 as the first Griffon Spitfire.  At this time the designation was Spitfire IV.  No weapons fitted, regular tail.


DP845 in May 42 with a mockup for a 6 cannon installation.


As the prototype Spitfire XII now with 2 20mm and 4 303s and the pointed rudder.


Ain't she pretty!  The last Spitfire XII built MB882 in October 43.


 Later coded EB-B with 41 Squadron April 44.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline LLogann

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2010, 12:53:33 AM »
The 6 cannon never worked right?  I heard, and read, stuff about the pull-over mechanism for the center gun's feed would always get stuck and so it was scraped...........

You would seem to know better than I.  You know anything about that?
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Offline stealth

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2010, 12:55:21 AM »
Was there a spitfire like the spit1 that didn't have its engine cut out that was more maneuverable.
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"I shall fear no evil, for I am 80,000 feet and climbing"

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2010, 12:56:14 AM »
The 6 cannon never worked right?  I heard, and read, stuff about the pull-over mechanism for the center gun's feed would always get stuck and so it was scraped...........

You would seem to know better than I.  You know anything about that?


It was only a wooden mock up.  A Spit XII test pilot I knew dropped into Tangmere one day with that set up and really shook up the Spit V drivers with that look however :)
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2010, 01:00:16 AM »
Was there a spitfire like the spit1 that didn't have its engine cut out that was more maneuverable.

The early Spits did not have a negative G carb so when they pushed the nose over, the engine cut out.  This was true into the Spitfire V series.  It was fixed by adding a simple metal washer the size of a small coin into the carb that stopped the flow of fuel up when the nose pushed over.

The early Spit I and II also had fabric covered ailerons that were less effective.  With the Spit V they had metal ailerons which made for a better roll rate.  Some Spitfire I and II were retrofitted with metal ailerons, but for the most part they were not with the frontline squadrons by that point, but relegated to training units.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline LLogann

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2010, 01:03:42 AM »
The literature I've read was slightly speculative.............  So.......... It was strictly a non-functioning mockup?


It was only a wooden mock up.  A Spit XII test pilot I knew dropped into Tangmere one day with that set up and really shook up the Spit V drivers with that look however :)
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Offline stealth

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2010, 01:05:13 AM »
The early Spits did not have a negative G carb so when they pushed the nose over, the engine cut out.  This was true into the Spitfire V series.  It was fixed by adding a simple metal washer the size of a small coin into the carb that stopped the flow of fuel up when the nose pushed over.

The early Spit I and II also had fabric covered ailerons that were less effective.  With the Spit V they had metal ailerons which made for a better roll rate.  Some Spitfire I and II were retrofitted with metal ailerons, but for the most part they were not with the frontline squadrons by that point, but relegated to training units.
O :bolt:
My Email is ACalex88@gmail.com if you want to contact me

"I shall fear no evil, for I am 80,000 feet and climbing"

Offline LLogann

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2010, 01:10:07 AM »
WTG Post Count! 

O :bolt:



(LLogann is close to 2000 and felt the need to point out this silly boy's lack of reason)   :rock

SPAMMER?  yup!
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2010, 01:11:46 AM »
The literature I've read was slightly speculative.............  So.......... It was strictly a non-functioning mockup?



Yep.  Had mock ups of slotted flaps on it too.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline stealth

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Re: Supermarine Griffon Spitfire
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2010, 01:13:08 AM »
WTG Post Count! 



(LLogann is close to 2000 and felt the need to point out this silly boy's lack of reason)   :rock

SPAMMER?  yup!
OK,Anyway is there any good spitfire that had these things range,maneuverability,firepower,climbrate,ammo and speed
My Email is ACalex88@gmail.com if you want to contact me

"I shall fear no evil, for I am 80,000 feet and climbing"