Hummer deal to Chinese company dead...brand to be shut down

[eagl]

I think that the Hummer was nothing but a fad anyhow.  It started when a few high profile personalities bought civilianized military utility vehicles, and then the game was to make regular SUVs *look* like those military vehicles, with minor variations balancing bling vs. actual off-road utility.  That whole bit was bound to end eventually, even if oil prices hadn't been driven through the roof.

Hummer needed to be a short-term sort of brand, because like all fads it was going to either die off due to lack of consumer interest, or have to morph drastically to a completely different type of vehicle image.  Maybe if they'd gone into aggressive off-road capable hybrids or alternative fuel vehicles, they might have survived.  But the whole bit about super heavy and expensive military-style vehicles was just a fad.

Saturn on the other hand...  Of all the brands that were wasted and shut off, Saturn is probably the biggest disappointment.  It was supposed to be GM's alternative and modern brand, and it sort of turned into the cheezy american version of 1990s hyundai...  They needed to keep up on the modern trends and again, a nice sensible hybrid or other risky sort of venture would have fit the Saturn brand perfectly since that's how the brand started off.  GM lost an experimental brand when they killed Saturn and that means they'll have to introduce risky new vehicle concepts as Chevys, something they didn't like to do in the '90s and '00s.

[lagger86]

In the bold and italicized item above; their is a difference in a decent wage and a unionized forced wage. All GM plants have the UAW in them and the only people getting any decent wage out of that are the union bosses and the politicians that they have to grease up to keep the unions in place. BUT then this thread is soon headed into politics so its best if we just stop it now.

I am a union worker, but I will say no more.

[saggs]

There are plenty of jobless people in the states that would build them, but they require a decent wage....so F that, if they can't get built cheap by another country...just shut it down...beats cutting into the mega corp's profits. No wonder this country is going to crap.l

Some peoples grasp of economics is so thin, no wonder this country is going to crap!

"Mega corps profits"?!?   Yea, curse GM for making all those mega profits... ... Oh wait, that's right they are losing money,  and the GM Hummer brand was losing more then the others, which is why it got chopped.

So me get this straight you want some US company to start up a plant making a product that will not sell at a profit sustaining level.  How then are they supposed to pay the employees a decent wage?   Oh yea, I remember now, borrow $25 Billion from the Federal Government.  

Your kind of thinking is exactly why GM and Chrysler are in trouble.

Who do you think is happier, the former GM and Chrysler employees in Detriot who got laid off.  Or lets say the people at Toyotas Indiana, or Texas plant who still have a job with a decent wage?

[Slash27]

What will pretentious jerks drive now?

Gay bellybutton mini trucks?

[saggs]

I believe pretentious jerks have always driven BMWs.  But some of them are starting to switch to Audi now as well.


EDIT: That is not to say that all BMW drivers are pretentious jerks, but that jerks seem to be attracted to BMW more so then any other brand.

[lagger86]

Some peoples grasp of economics is so thin, no wonder this country is going to crap!

"Mega corps profits"?!?   Yea, curse GM for making all those mega profits... ... Oh wait, that's right they are losing money,  and the GM Hummer brand was losing more then the others, which is why it got chopped.

So me get this straight you want some US company to start up a plant making a product that will not sell at a profit sustaining level.  How then are they supposed to pay the employees a decent wage?   Oh yea, I remember now, borrow $25 Billion from the Federal Government.  

Your kind of thinking is exactly why GM and Chrysler are in trouble.

Who do you think is happier, the former GM and Chrysler employees in Detriot who got laid off.  Or lets say the people at Toyotas Indiana, or Texas plant who still have a job with a decent wage?

 Look, I'm not some economic guru and don't claim to be, but I don't see how sending jobs over seas is an answer to anything for the American economy.....am I wrong for thinking that? Why do they send them there? It must cost less....that is greed. I don't want anyone to start up a company selling crappy SUV's that guzzle gas and just get in my way when I try to park, but if they feel like they have to build them, at least build them here.

I don't think the people who got laid off in Detroit are happy at all, and the people in texas and indiana are happy to be working.

I hate the fact that jobs are being shipped out of this country when there are people here that can do them...yeah I guess I'm complete idiot for thinking like that.

[Reschke]

Look, I'm not some economic guru and don't claim to be, but I don't see how sending jobs over seas is an answer to anything for the American economy.....am I wrong for thinking that? Why do they send them there? It must cost less....that is greed. I don't want anyone to start up a company selling crappy SUV's that guzzle gas and just get in my way when I try to park, but if they feel like they have to build them, at least build them here.

I don't think the people who got laid off in Detroit are happy at all, and the people in texas and indiana are happy to be working.

I hate the fact that jobs are being shipped out of this country when there are people here that can do them...yeah I guess I'm complete idiot for thinking like that.

No you aren't wrong for thinking that because sending money and jobs overseas is not the thing to do. However for the UAW and other unions to shove it down our throat like they are is wrong.

A little different but a good example of the unions killing the companies and workers they are supposed to help. I was visiting some customers in Ohio area this week and all of them had just had the union reps come through asking for ANOTHER $.05 cents an hour to be taken out of the workers paycheck to cover "Lobbyists" in Washington DC and Columbus, OH. Now that isn't much but spread that out over the unionized workers in the state of Ohio and then do the math for the year. It isn't much in the grand scheme of things but it is just one more addition to the "dues" that they are forced to pay in order to have a job. Then they (unions and politicians) whine about the lack of work and jobs that are leaving that area and wonder why.

In construction I know for a fact that union workers who operate heavy equipment (concrete pump trucks of any size) typically make between $50 & $70 an hour at many of the companies I go see. But in areas where the union isn't involved that figure drops to $15-$30 depending on the level of experience...unlike the union workers where that wage is depending upon which local you are a part of in nearly all cases. Not to mention the ridiculous rules that several of the companies I sell to have to follow in order to get onto jobs, BUT they have to do it or they don't get the work. Like the union gets a percentage of the overtime wages that should be paid to the worker if he goes over 40 hours a week on the job. I have a customer that told me that percentage starts around 15% for anything up to 12 hours overtime and anything over that the percentage increases up to close to 30%...thats money the operator will never see in any way, shape or form.

Sorry but I can't see how the union benefits the worker anymore in this day and age with all the rules and regulations that are in place. If anything they are driving a stake through the heart of the workers and small companies in this nation instead of helping to keep it built up and able to work like we should.

If I was starting or owned a company I'll be da%*^d if I would hire any union workers or go after any work that required a union to do the job.

Sorry about the rant I just see too many good companies going under because they can't meet payroll due to set wage scales that are in place due to the unions and the lack of work due to the banks not lending money and...well the list goes on and on.

[Maverick]

Since GM stands for Government Motors now I think they should rethink the sales deal. They should GIVE the Hummer factory to China and claim it as a payment on the debt they owe the Chinese. That should be a heck of a divot into the trade ratio. That way the Chinese get stuck with a faux 4x4 gas hog and we have a better trade ratio figure.
  

[Widewing]

Well, the Hummer H2 is one ugly piece. Looks like a refrigerator laying on a mover's dolly....

However, the H3 has great potential for serious off road use, especially when you order the electric locker differentials and 32" tires. It is, sadly, rare that anyone does any serious off roading with the H3.


My regards,

Widewing

[Tupac]

AMC Gremlin FTW

[saggs]

Well, the Hummer H2 is one ugly piece. Looks like a refrigerator laying on a mover's dolly....

However, the H3 has great potential for serious off road use, especially when you order the electric locker differentials and 32" tires. It is, sadly, rare that anyone does any serious off roading with the H3.


My regards,

Widewing

Agreed, the H2 is an abomination of the Hummer name.

I really like the H3 though, the e-lock diffs are great, IMO every 4x4 should come with locking diffs, or some kind of LSD at least, without them 4x4 is really still only 2x4 when it matters most.

My summary:

AMG Hummer (Humvee, H1 etc.) = one of the greatest all- purpose utility vehicles ever built.
GM Hummer H2  = Boo, Hiss, better suited for a mall cruiser then off-road
GM Hummer H3  = A very capable and good looking off-road vehicle, I'd take one.

BTW:  I heard a rumor that AMG's military contract is going to end soon, and the military wants something different and is not likely to extend it.  I hope that it's not the end of AMG.  I'm sure they have the knowledge to make some great civilian vehicles, but with the end of their GM partnership they no longer have the means of distribution.

My dream:    AMG makes a deal with Ford to design and build a new Bronco, similar in size and shape to the the 1st gen 66-77 Broncos, but with a 4 cylinder turbo diesel, and modern 4WD and suspension technology, ala the concept they showed in 2004