WYAFIWYG (what you ask is what you get)

[gatt]

I cant help but noting those threads in the general and aircaft section of the BBS. With HTC late war plane set, you'll often find yourself debating about those useless arguments: Me262 in the Main arena, 20mm on the F6F-5, Cannon Hogs, Black Widows, other "Secret Weapons of Luftwaffe" (Salamanders, Komets, c'mon), Perk Projects, Bearcats ... even Seafurys.

No, really, these are not the topics for a sim supposed to beat WB and the inbound WW2OL. In the meantime poor kites like the C.202, the 109F-4 and the Spifire MkV are almost bullet magnets in the MA (Citabria apart).

A 1941-43 plane set will allow a much better arena balance, good scenarios and interesting threads here in the BBS. Actual kites could be used in late war scenarios and in a new RPS (after we get the Dora, that is). As far as I am concerned, something is happening, my fun is not the same. Reasons are clearly described above.

Battle of Britain by Rowan and Blitzkrieg  (and later) by WW2OL are OTW. But 1941-43 still means Barbarossa, North Afrika, Malta, PTO (huge theatre!) and the first raids over Europe. The most interesting and challenging phases of the whole WWII air war.

Does 1944-45 means marketing for US customers? Maybe. I dunno. I hope not. No offence and no flame war intended here, HTC is doing a damned good work, but this is a game in the end and I need fun playing it. Just my 2 Euros thought (cheap, that is).

Regards,
GATT
4°Stormo Caccia


[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 09-25-2000).]

[HABICHT]

WTG gatt!

maybe the USAF can't stand against LW and
IJN in 1942-43?  could this be the reason
for our 44-45 planeset???
like you saif GATT, money is all!

[Vermillion]

 

Does 1944-45 means marketing for US customers?

I think it just means good marketing period.

I can understand your love of early-midwar aircraft, but I honestly think the average players of all countries prefer the late war aircraft.

You have seen the many threads on the issue here, and over in WB's. But it basically comes down to the fact that people want to fly in what was the "best" aircraft of the era. Why would you want to fly a 109F4, when you know a 109G10 is so much better, and was still part of the war.  

It would be like the average guy in a racing game, prefering to drive a Yugo or Ford Escort, over a Ferrari or Lamborghini, because it is more 'representative' of what the average guy gets to drive in real life  

Oversimplified to a ludicrous degree, but It makes my point  


------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[flakbait]

Here here! Nice goin Gatt, you hit the nail on the head. Hard. I'm another early to mid-war fan and love both the aircraft and vehicles of that era. My main ride is a 109-G2, with many hours spent in an F4. All in all I'd prefer that type of plane-set over something with Ta-152s and such.

Tempest Vs? You gotta be kidding me! I'll take a 109-E4 or E7 any day. Spitfires I've learned to both love and fear, Hurricanes too thanks to WBs. Late-war stuff has its place in every sim, it simply depends on how much the company prefers it over other years. If they think it should be represented, you'll see a fair number of '44-'45 stuff in the game.

If they love it, then the first things out will be 190-D9s, Spit XIVs, Tempests, and Me-262s. When they start indroducing more aircraft of an early-war period, you catch whines from Hell. "This Hurricane IIC stinks! I'm goin back to my Spit XIV!". Why? Simply put, people will be used to higher performance aircraft and demand that performance from everything.

My take on the matter is this. For every '44-'45 aircraft introduced, two aircraft and one vehicle of an earlier period should be put in. This keeps the whining down by giving everyone a chance to fly an earlier model of a Spit or 109. By taking a Panzer III instead of that JS II tank, you'd have to use tactics instead of sheer force.


Either way, I'm still an early to mid-war fan.


Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000

[gatt]

Hi Verm,
I want to drive a 109F-4 when and only when I can meet a Spitfire MkV over the channel, escorting some Blenheims otw to bomb LW airfields. This is what I'd like to see in a simulation.

Yes, sure, a G-10 is much better than a Franz, but only if you let them live togheter in the same arena in the same time. This is what I call a gigantic unhistorical melee.

People ask only for latest a/c? Uhm, I'm not sure. Actual online arenas size and dogfighting styles go better togheter with early-mid war plane sets, IMHO.

Better marketing period ... you can be right on target. It is my fault, I have to remember more often that making money and building balanced/historical arenas are not always the same thing.

But in the end would be interesting to hear something from HTC. Maybe in the future we'll have RPS and early-mid war kites. Who knows.
 

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 09-25-2000).]

[Citabria]

Citabria apart???  

37 kills, 13 deaths in the C.202
17 kills,  3 deaths in the Bf 109F-4
7  kills,  0 deaths in the Spitfire Mk V
 


more mid war planes please HTC.  
P-40B, P-40E
P-39
Ki43
Ki61
Hurri2c
Ki45
bf110G

trust me I'd fly them even in the MA  
 

[gatt]

Citabria,
stay away of this thread. You screw it up ...  

[Stiglr]

gatt, yer the voice of reason.

There is so much more to explore than how "Plane A that was on the drawing board in 1945 would do vs. Plane B that flew in Korea". Yawn. Give me the Japanese/Chinese War, the Winter/Continutation Wars, heck, give me most of WWII that AH can't simulate yet because the planeset isn't fleshed out yet.

It's really all relative. Sure, the early planes are "slow" compared to the Late War birds, but within those groups, there are still speed demons for each year. And with relatively weaker guns, you'll find the combat comes down more to skill than the ability to run up at 500MPH, taking a wing with a splitsecond snapshot. You gotta *work* for your kills!!! Some people just don't wanna have to do that and expose their dweebishness for what it is!  

For my money the recipe is 1) Representation and 2) Ubiquity with a big smattering of 3)ability to recreate key battles like Stalingrad/Kursk, Midway, Guadalcanal/Solomons, Med 1941, Desert War '41-43, etc. etc. etc.

[Major Tom]

I want Chinese bi-planes and I'm not leaving until I get them!

On a less ludicrous note I wouldn't mind having 1941-1943 aircraft standard in the game, most 1944 aircraft perked and anything terribly uber like the dora or P-51H should be uber perked.

That way we can stick the Allied pilots in the P-51B's and P-47C's as it should be, have the P-51D's and P-47D's perked!  The P-51B/Mustang III is a mid 1943 plane and I wouldn't mind taking up one if it had the nancy brit Malcolm hood mod.  Heck I’d take it up without the mod, microperk the mod.  I would have no problems taking up a P-51B, P-40 or P-38 against any jap aircraft out there in 1941-1943.  Boom and zoom baby, Boom and zoom.

Facing off against 1941-1943 planes in the B-26 and B-25 ought to be easy enough.

The most advanced Japanese non-perk or uberperk planes I'd be facing would be the standard jap zero's, Ki-61I's and Ki-43II's.

190A-8's are early 1944 production aircraft, so we can perk them, but not uberperk.

Quite frankly I can see how the United States would have a good advantage in a 1941-1943 planeset, all the good ones are there, A-26, A-20, B-25 (most variants except the B-25H-5 perk!), B-26B, B-17E/F/G, P-51B/III, P-40, P-47C, P-38, F4F, F6F, F4U.  Only in a 1944-45 planeset they would be at a disadvantage.  But since we are going to have the perk system (I'd actually be in favor of a rolling plane set)...

I'd like to think the P-51B/MustangIII could hold its own against 1943 german and jap aircraft.

[Fishu]

Citabria just keeps putting those stats in every second thread..
Geez.. and people tend to say that I was bragging all the time.


Let's put up..

Spitfrie Mk V:  25 kills, 1 death (thats my anti-vulch plane)
Ju 88 A-4: 30 kills, 11 deaths
Bf109F-4: 16 kills, 2 deaths
 

[Major Tom]

51 kills 18 deaths in the B-26  

blah blah blah

[Citabria]

I call it my "anti-thisplanesucks" argument  

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Major Tom:
51 kills 18 deaths in the B-26  

blah blah blah

boo, B-26 has 5x.50cal forward firing for pilot and .50 caliber turrets..

Too bad its not possible to link up that single nose gun operated by bomber to fire with those 5 others... that would be then 6 forward firing .50 calibers.

[Major Tom]

Me and a buddy of mine set our computers side by side and tore up the MA in a B-26.  We switched off between manning the guns and piloting the mean ship!  We tore up this one poor bastard in a B-17, he was turning right infront of us and slightly above.  I was piloting the ship, he was gunning, I layed into him with all 5 forward .50's and he layed into him with the top and nose .50's.

I've never seen a B-17 go down so fast with so little defensive fire!

I currently love lanc caping in the B-26.  Those lancasters fall before the Mighty marauder in droves.

[Torque]

Fishu what's your handle in MA?<cough>

Since the Axis had a 2-3 year head start in Combat AC designs and production 1943 planeset would be in their favor.Cept fer Spits they just kick Axis's butt all through.