Name This...(67)

[brady]

???

 

[SKurj]

Russian... thats about all i can tell ya but I KNOW i have seen that exact photo somewhere.. or at least i think i have..


SKurj

[Hobodog]

Suomi ??

[pdog_109]

PPSH russian subgun, 900rpm, with 70 round drum magazine.

Come on Brady, these guns are easy for me  

[LLv34_Camouflage]

They didn't copy it from the finnish Suomi-submachine gun, by any chance?

Camo

[Sorrow[S=A]]

It was an exact copy camo- re-chambered for the same bullet as the Moisin-Nagant. In fact towards the end of the war the cut the rifle barrels in half just to make more SMG's.

[butch2k]

More nice picture of this PPSh 41 here : http://www.a-human-right.com/ppsh.html

[-lynx-]

Sorrow - BS.

PPSh-41 "borrowed" just one part from Finns and that was a great design of the round magasine. The rest was simplicity itself - not a single screw/thread in the whole thing. It was simple/cheap to manufacture and operate. Both German and Finnish infanrymen preferred PPSh's to their own guns for higher rate of fire, simplicity and reliability.

"There are some similarities between the KP/-31 and PPSh -41 such as magazine capacity, cyclic rate of fire and the wooden buttstock. The Finnish gun is, however, a first generation submachine gun while the PPSh is a typical second generation submachine gun: Mass-produced for a massive army, and thus possessing neither quickly detachable barrel nor some other luxuries such as versatility with very slight - if any - alteration of the receiver mechanism."  
source of the above quote and more info on SMGs...

Fact is - Finns tried to copy it, or, rather adopt it for 9mm Luger cartridge with no joy.

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: -lynx- ]

[Fishu]

Thats PPSh41 picture, seen it before.
Since its so easy otherwise, perhaps we should begin to wonder if its early or late model PPSh 41. (there was semi/automatic and automatic only 41's around.. I think late one was full auto only)

Lynx,

What problem there was to adapt it for 9mm?
Germans did that in large numbers for PPSh41's, for better ammo support.

[pdog_109]

Its common BS that soviets just exactly copy other designs, like the MP44 german assualt rifle and the AK-47.

[Rendar]

AK-47 was based on the StG-44.  Kalashnikov basically simplified it, and rechambered it for the 7.62x39mm round.

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Rendar ]

[-lynx-]

Fishu

I guess you found it too expensive - PPSh-41 did not have easily removable barrel. One would have to literally re-build each SMG from scratch re-using only very few cheap pressed steel parts. Have a look at the site I listed above - it's actually dedicated to your very own Suomi SMG. I'm not a gun buff but it's very interesting reading (when you disregard "how Finns almost won the Winter War" stuff ).

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: -lynx- ]

[Staga]

Hehe in that time russians were 15 years behind Finnish in manufacturing a machine-pistol (Prototype /-22 and KP/-26, predecessor of -31) and over 20 years behind germans  

btw one reason why KP/-31 was so efective was its quick-change barrel which didn't need any tools. It's also nice to shoot and actually more precise than I expected.
I had a chance to try one in winter -88 after our staff sergeant gave me a golden shooter's badge in our shooting range when I was serving my time in army  

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Nice misdirection Lynx.

The gun is a copy. Soumi was first, the Soviets copied it and adapted the PPSH to mass production. The PPSH has the same bolt, feed, magazine etc etc. Changing production methods and chambering didn't make the PPSH a new gun.

In any case I wasn't knocking the Soviets for doing it. When you find a weapon that good why not copy it?? It was by far the best SMG design of the war.


However, if you think the Ak-47 came from the StG-44 you need your head examined. Kalashnikov had his design in production before they ever saw a German Assualt rifle. The only real resemblence I could see would be the fact both are assualt rifles and both look similar.

Sorrow

[brady]

PPSH 41, it is