Author Topic: how tough was the P-38? (Read 1197 times)

Staga · « **Reply #15 on:** July 16, 2001, 12:16:00 AM »

Bad trip eh?

Hooligan · « **Reply #16 on:** July 16, 2001, 01:05:00 AM »

In my opinion the damage modeling in Aces High is not as well done as many of the other program features (still better by far than the competition). Fires, ammunition being set off and single crippling hits of numerous types simply aren’t modeled. A lot more fighters should die suddenly from a round hitting in the right place (setting the engine on fire for example) and far less should die from structural failure. Bearing this in mind, the following information is from: Aircraft Vulnerability in WWII, The Rand Corporation. Pages 46-47.

Quote

Table 6 shows that roughly three of every four damaged P-47s (we able to return to base)…, compared to three of five P-38s and P-51s…

Interrogation of the 148 fighter pilots who had been lost in operations over enemy territory and later returned to England revealed that the damage to the engine, oil system, fuel system, or flight controls was involved in over half of the aircraft losses. The engines of the P-51 and the P-38, and the oil system of the P-47 were stated to have been the most vulnerable parts of the aircraft. Fire occurred in 59% of all the cases in which the circumstances of the loss were known and there was smoke in an additional 13 percent…

Contrary to what might be expected, the second engine of the P-38 probably increased the vulnerability of the airplane.

Even though the 38 was a much larger and sturdier aircraft than the 51, it was essentially as vulnerable to battle damage. Real aircraft rarely died by getting a wing or stabilizer sawed off, and compared to the US radial engined fighters the P-38 was rather fragile because it was prone to catching on fire due to the large area taken up by the 2 inline engines.

Hooligan

[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: Hooligan ]

Seeker · « **Reply #17 on:** July 16, 2001, 07:45:00 AM »

One aspect that seems to be left out of the discussion is how would we, the users, experience more intricate damage modeling?

Bearing in mind there was no HUD to tell a pilot what was wrong with his craft, what would we be prepared to accept as feed back? A text message saying something like "elevator cable severed", or would we prefer that the plane somply didn't handle, without knowing why?

At present, I can look out the cockpit and see the damage. Could I do that with damaged or trapped control wires?

Which is more realistic, a radio fire burning out the plane, or simply to lose all text send & recieve?

Which is more realistic, a single ping Fw engine kill, or a single ping "oil spill black out" over the wind shield and the engine still runs.....which would the luftwhiners prefer?

How would a P38 pilot at 25K know the difference in our simulation between a head wind and loosing the valve seats? Could engine roughness/vibration be programmed into force feedback? What of those with out FF?

Reading about Forts, it seems a major worry for B-17 crews was a windmilling prop. Are we prepared to have a prop blade fly through the cockpit and kill us, or would that be too gamey?

And for exact realism, we ought to able to ram each other, as this tactic was documented as used by every single airforce in every single theater. Are we ready to unleash that on the arena?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2001, 12:01:00 PM »

As for the ridiculous and utterly unwarranted "luftwhiner" comment Seeker we would definatly prefer the second. Fw190 and Bf109 had very nice and apparently effective windshield washers just designed with such mishaps in mind. Anyhow its a moot point as the 1 ping 190 (and P38 BTW) engine death is soon to be history my friend....

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2001, 12:04:00 PM »

Windshield wipers for clearing oil away...

Now THAT's the best one I've heard in years!

Here's a test you can do Grunherz:

Change the oil in your car someday, save the used oil and pour it over a DRY window pane. Take a squijie (spelling?) and TRY to get all the oil off.

You'll have smudges and other nasty things covering the window pane.
-SW

mx22 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 16, 2001, 12:54:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Anyhow its a moot point as the 1 ping 190 (and P38 BTW) engine death is soon to be history my friend....

It's nice to know this whole issue soon will be history, but I think you see this fix as some sort of a "instant cure it all". I hope you won't be disapointed.

mx22

batdog · « **Reply #21 on:** July 16, 2001, 01:35:00 PM »

I'm with Cit. It seems like the 38 is simply the most fragile plane in the entire plane set. Its a target that everyone in here drools over when they see... is it not?

xBAT

P.S. TAC we still need to do that test.

mx22 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2001, 03:25:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by batdog:
I'm with Cit. It seems like the 38 is simply the most fragile plane in the entire plane set. Its a target that everyone in here drools over when they see... is it not?

xBAT

P.S. TAC we still need to do that test.

Of course everyone drools. It's so huge, you cant miss it even with your eyes closed

mx22

Seeker · « **Reply #23 on:** July 17, 2001, 03:38:00 AM »

I'M SOORY ABUT THE LUFTWHINERS COMMENT BUT isee them whine so much ANd i'M VERY upset about this!

.) sEE! A SMIley face SO YOU KNow i'M NOt being OFFENSIVE OR DEROGITORY.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #24 on:** July 17, 2001, 04:09:00 AM »

They weren't wipers like the ones on cars SW, in fact this system didnt use wipers at all.

Ill let u figure out how it worked since you are obviously so "knowlegable".

hehe

minus · « **Reply #25 on:** July 17, 2001, 05:16:00 AM »

what a hell is hard to copy about Lw planes ?

try to fly a entire tour in 190

u will need to learn shot below 300 and if u wona stay alive u need to learn be patient try the 190 a8 i ndefensive manovers vs spits and bouncing ponys

why u BIGEST ALIED HEROS cant anderstud the LW planes are not the easy birds ?

about plane toughnes , do no but it take damn big load of 20 mm from Lw palne to shot down 1 p 38 and about super jfk bulets what riping the poor P38 , well then problem is maybe in 50 caliber bulets ?
anyway ,,, wonder what exploding in 190 wing if out of ammo and no fuel in it ?????
i like to know if some 1 have logical explication plzz

minus · « **Reply #26 on:** July 17, 2001, 05:19:00 AM »

not a double post jsut forget to EXPLAIN in first post why LW fan players not HAPY.
ahh and u call this lwhiners

Hooligan · « **Reply #27 on:** July 17, 2001, 01:18:00 PM »

Batdog:

The 38 is not remarkably fragile in the game, but it is a HUGE freaking target and easy to hit. That is what provides its appeal to the shooter.

Hooligan

batdog · « **Reply #28 on:** July 17, 2001, 02:15:00 PM »

Nope, its fragile. I'm right and your wrong and I'm simply gonna be mule-headed about it.

xBAT

P.S. You fly it alot?

funkedup · « **Reply #29 on:** July 17, 2001, 03:37:00 PM »

One thing to remember when looking at pictures of battle-damaged planes that made it home: These are the ones that survived. The ones that exploded or fell apart after a few hits didn't make it back to get photographed. They only show up on gun camera film.