how tough was the P-38?

[Jigster]

Originally posted by Hooligan:
Batdog:

The 38 is not remarkably fragile in the game, but it is a HUGE freaking target and easy to hit.  That is what provides its appeal to the shooter.

Hooligan

So are all the buffs. But you don't see them  fall apart with unconcentrated fire.

 

[Hooligan]

I flew the 38 for a tour about half a year ago.  It did not seem particularly fragile to me at the time.

Nor, when I shoot them (which recently would mean shoot them from a dhog, n1k, 109g6, or La7 or in other words a large variety of gunsets) do they don't seem particularly fragile (compared to other fighters).  However they are quite easy to hit since they are so big and not particularly agile and I find it easy to put a lot of lead on the target.

Of course these are just my impressions.  And until somebody actually figures out a way to test the 38 durability in a reproducable fashon and posts something besides their impressions I have a feeling that Pyro isn't going to be spending too much time investigating this.  

Hooligan

[straffo]

Obviously not so though  

As you can see to preserve a P38 they where forced to froze it  

[Angus]

Cool pictures Citabria.
  +
That would be a p38 found deep in the Greenland glacier. Hard to imagine how valuable things become in just 50 years.
I was watching the excavations eagerly on the news. It was all over the Icelandic TV for the simple reason that our folks from the university found the planes with a specially designed ice-scope.
The 38's were on their way over the atlantic with a refuel stop in Reykjavik, when they received a message that the icelandic fields were closed due to bad weather. They never made it far enough to a successful landing. Ironically, the fields were not closed, and the message was false, - it came from a german U-boat.
Nobody up here ever expected the wrecks to be that intact...some strong structure  

[Minotaur]

Nice pics Cit, thanks.

I don't fly the P-38 much anymore.  It is too hard for me to have success in the MA.  I hardly see any flying and often consider them a much easier target if I do.  

Take care!

[BenDover]

Originally posted by Citabria:
another shows a p38 that landed after coliding head on with a halifax BOMBER! the halifax' vert stab was embeded in the left wing of the p38

what i want to know is why it colided head on with a halifax bomber    

[BenDover]

Originally posted by Jigster:


So are all the buffs. But you don't see them  fall apart with unconcentrated fire.

 

but buffs had alot of amour

[Hristo]

When you ride a motorcycle and it rains, you drive faster so the wind wipes the raindrops off your helmet. It starts somewhere at 40 mph.

I would understand that at 300 IAS even the sticky oil would be wiped off by the wind.

The idea is nice, though. HOw about flying into the oil leak stream of a plane in front of you ? How about finally getting damage from parts falling off ?

As for bouncing Ponies, I have yet to see the problem. They keep bouncing up and down, lil kids try to catch them and so. You just wait when they bounce back up and shot the damn bastards   .

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Hristo ]

[Tac]

"but buffs had alot of amour"

Not really..they just had a bigger frame to withstand damage. Go to a museum and see a real ww2 bomber, you will see their "armour" is almost nonexistent. A b17 would barely stop a round from going in.. and it would also go OUT the other side.

I wish we could have gunner killed damage in AH.. would make things MUCH better.

[Fishu]

P38 is though, but I suspect its not as tough as legendary P47.

My opinion is that all planes in AH gets departed too easily.
This might be due to areal damage, instead of "what damage the bullet causes".
You won't see too many shot up planes in AH since bullets will always cause that # amount of damage where they hit (and explosive bullets will cause # amount to close by area, it seems)

In real life, bullet could have well just been shot through airframe, without causing anything than an annoying hole or cut through sensitive part of the structure and cause it to collapse.

Thats how legends borns.. they've managed to be lucky and have bullets strike in less serious manner, while others have blown up for single bullet, with plane type being irrelevant.


If P38 would get tougher in AH, then I suspect that P47 and Fw190 should get as well.
(from what I hear)
With that, we would just come up with most of the planes toughened up.

[Ghosth]

I see a lot of planes falling apart in front of me at pretty close ranges. Not as many as some of the really good sticks, but enough.

Since Day 1 p38's have been a favorite target of mine. Especially so if they are co-alt or lower.

P38's consistantly seem to shed tail surfaces
quicker & with fewer hits than I would expect from another plane. Is this modeled correctly? Good question, ask pyro, he knows, we're guessing.

I'd have to estimate that 8 out of 10 P38's will lose tail surfaces with only 2 to 5 20mm hits. (ShVaks, ussually fired inside convergience at 200 to 300)

But thats all it is, an estimate, and one La-7 pilots opinion.

I just wish niki's lost tails so easy!  

[Tac]

fire some .50's at d800. same result as a 20mm at d100. ping.. CRACK.. adios tail/wing/engines (and/or all the above)

[batdog]

Tac, email me. Lets do that damage test.

xBAT

[Widewing]

Originally posted by BenDover:


what i want to know is why it colided head on with a halifax bomber        

It occurred during climbout through a heavy overcast. Although specific information is not available as to what happened to the mauled Halifax, one did crash that day in the general area.

If you happen to have Bodie's P-38 book, a photo of the Lightning, still carrying the Halifax stabilizer can be found in it. As well as a photo of another P-38 that took down a power pole and returned with extraordinary damage.

For the record, the P-38 was just about the sturdiest airframe in existance during the war, fully able to survive sustained (several seconds) of 9 g loading, and peaks in excess of 11 g for short durations (milliseconds).

Another incident involved a P-38F that collided with a Bf-109 over North Africa. This 109 crashed into the port boom and elevator, severing the elevator from the boom, and bending the boom itself. The Messerschmitt lost a wing and crashed. Meanwhile, the Lightning returned safely.

(Note: If I recall correctly, this "P-38" was actually an F-5 photorecon bird returning from a mission when it ran into the climbing Halifax in the overcast)

My regards,

Widewing

[ 07-24-2001: Message edited by: Widewing ]

[Bodhi]

Imagine that!

 5 20's removing the tail of a P38, I would expect NO LESS!  The 38's tail (especially at the root of the booms) is:

#1 not big, i.e. not much of a cross section

#2 made of .050 aluminum, which will not withstand the effects and stay together under that firepower.

#3 not designed to be penetrated

These complaints are simply unfounded.  There are stories of "rarities" surviving awe striking damage, but as said they are rarities.  It is not the standard.  Think of the countless aircraft that did not return instead.  Think of Liberators taking a burst in the wing root, and the wing folding up and falling off.  Or aircraft lost simply to a shell fragment puncturing a coolant line.  That is reality.