Author Topic: Whats wrong with these screenshots?  (Read 6082 times)

Offline JunkyII

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8428
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2010, 02:43:35 PM »
I bomb FH's so guys will get on the forums and write a 1,161 word essay about it...  :D j/k.

I don't think bombing FHs has such a negative effect on game play that it warrants any change.

1-

Why is furballing so important? Bombers are doing what they like, furballers are doing what they like.  Very often all the hangers don't even go down at the same time, so your downtime is usually only a couple of minutes.  Groups of bombers that are able to completely disable a field on one pass are going to be throwing up a big dar, you can't really blame the bombers for you not paying attention to the map.

2-
To get the town down, the ack down, the radar down, it helps not having 50 spits and LA7s up.  If I go over a field and drop all the FH and VH, and another squad comes in and destroys the town, I'd say that is an effective base-taking strategy.  Now if I come in and bomb the VH, radar, maybe the town, and another squad comes in to take, they are going to meet a lot of red planes.



I just don't think it's that big of a problem, there is almost always a fight somewhere on the map.  I feel like you want your furballs at the expense of other people's game play.

 :salute

JayHawk,
Thanks for the comments and good joke, this topic did take awhile.....Ive been saving screen shots for a bit now whenever I remember :o .

But see I think your right in the situation your talking about. But understand Im talking about the excessive force/path of least resistence style of gameplay. This game promotes combat on all levels...1v1s to country size combat...I dont think there are many games that do that. But the fun part about gaming combat is the challenge behind it. If 8 decent buff pilots up 2 sectors away in 24s...unless a sqaud goes to intercept them all together, they are still going to devastate a field even if they lose 2 groups. Most of the time the fighters from that field are tangled up with the fighters from another field so even if they go to get them buffs......the enemy fighters still creep closer to where they are low and slow.

Do you understand what Im getting at? Buffs can flatten town, ords, radar, fuel.....thats plenty of targets for buff pilots and its going to have a huge affect on the base they hit.....but their enemy will enjoy the fight better.....causing maybe a better community change

 :salute
DFC Member
Proud Member of Pigs on the Wing
"Yikes"

Offline JunkyII

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8428
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2010, 02:45:13 PM »
The biggest misconception I see is we think a 'country' is its own entity making decisions to take down hangars or who they fight.  Bish are only attacking Knights! Bish keep taking down fighter hangars!  In reality one player decides he wants to bomb hangars for whatever his reason is.  He probably doesn't have one, he just figures if he blows up stuff at enemy base, he helps his side and has fun at the same time.  It's pretty easy to understand how it happens even though it makes no sense from a strategy perspective.  Don't even waste your time trying to wrap your head around things you see in this game, no one knows wth they are doing.
If I can bring 5 people over to the light from the darkside......gameplay will be that much better. :cheers:


 :salute
DFC Member
Proud Member of Pigs on the Wing
"Yikes"

Offline Delirium

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7276
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2010, 02:47:04 PM »
A bomber has the luxury of not having to dive into harms way to destroy something, it can be at 7.5k above the field just out of ack range or at 25k where you will only find Chalenge higher.

If a thin wind layer was set about 15k, I wouldn't mind the level bombers so much. It would force them lower or they would suffer with inaccurate drops, this idea would put them into the line of fire rather than flying 25k+ over it. It wouldn't affect HQ runs or strat runs as much because those targets are a lot bigger and wouldn't require the pinpoint (read: laser guided) accuracy that FHs need.
Delirium
80th "Headhunters"
Retired AH Trainer (but still teach the P38 selectively)

I found an air leak in my inflatable sheep and plugged the hole! Honest!

Offline Knite

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 805
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2010, 03:08:06 PM »
If any base takers have any reasons for dropping FHs I would like to hear and discuss the topic with you.

#1 reason for dropping FHs?

Topics like these.

The more people complain about them, the more certain people will get enjoyment from doing it. Only answer is to defeat the bombers before they arrive. I don't see HTC EVER making FH or GH's unbombable.
Knite

39th FS "Cobra In The Clouds"

I'm basically here to lower the 39th's score :P

Offline Jayhawk

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3909
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2010, 03:12:06 PM »
JayHawk,
Thanks for the comments and good joke, this topic did take awhile.....Ive been saving screen shots for a bit now whenever I remember :o .

But see I think your right in the situation your talking about. But understand Im talking about the excessive force/path of least resistence style of gameplay. This game promotes combat on all levels...1v1s to country size combat...I dont think there are many games that do that. But the fun part about gaming combat is the challenge behind it. If 8 decent buff pilots up 2 sectors away in 24s...unless a sqaud goes to intercept them all together, they are still going to devastate a field even if they lose 2 groups. Most of the time the fighters from that field are tangled up with the fighters from another field so even if they go to get them buffs......the enemy fighters still creep closer to where they are low and slow.

Do you understand what Im getting at? Buffs can flatten town, ords, radar, fuel.....thats plenty of targets for buff pilots and its going to have a huge affect on the base they hit.....but their enemy will enjoy the fight better.....causing maybe a better community change

 :salute

Alright I understand what you're saying.  I'm trying to look at this as the decisions my squad makes when we go on a bombing run.  I'd say often we try to create our own fight and rile up fighters at fields.  We will attack an enemy field if fighters, gvs, etc. are lifting off of that field to attack a friendly base, the problem with this is that sometimes by the time we get there the situation has shifted.  If we have a distinct advantage at a field I don't think we'd drop.  One important thing is what each of us qualifies as an advantage.  If the green guys have two dar bars and the red guys have one, over their own base, I don't see that as an extreme advantage.  Having  a full dar bar over your own airfield gives you quite a 'home field advantage'.  But more importantly the fight is often midway between the bases, and how the sectors are laid out may not reflect actual numbers or actual advantages.

Still, this is only IF we attack that base.  If we do, our hope is to 'shut off the tap' of enemy fighters allowing the green mass to shift closer to the enemy field.  Most of the time though, only a couple minutes after, the fight has pretty much returned to normal.  It's ineffective and I don't believe we choose to do it often, but that may be why others do.

For some of those extreme situations I think you can only attribute that to Grizz's explanation about the individual player just going to bomb something for his own reasons, whatever they may be.

These post's do take a while, I started typing my first post when you didn't have any responses, I'm sure there will be plenty of new stuff when I hit post now. This thread is going to be around for a while... just like the last one.  :lol
LOOK EVERYBODY!  I GOT MY NAME IN LIGHTS!

Folks, play nice.

Offline JunkyII

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8428
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2010, 03:13:25 PM »
#1 reason for dropping FHs?

Topics like these.

The more people complain about them, the more certain people will get enjoyment from doing it. Only answer is to defeat the bombers before they arrive. I don't see HTC EVER making FH or GH's unbombable.

Im not going for that in making this thread.......I would have put it in wishlist if it were a dream :aok . What I would like is for certain people to see this and maybe think twice before dropping the FH by maybe asking around if its a furball, kinda like when you see a guy in a 1v1 somewhere.....ask him if he needs help. Again this is not a whine, its a discussion.

 :salute
DFC Member
Proud Member of Pigs on the Wing
"Yikes"

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2010, 03:32:29 PM »
Im not going for that in making this thread.......I would have put it in wishlist if it were a dream :aok . What I would like is for certain people to see this and maybe think twice before dropping the FH by maybe asking around if its a furball, kinda like when you see a guy in a 1v1 somewhere.....ask him if he needs help. Again this is not a whine, its a discussion.

 :salute


Wait, you want people to ask "Mother May I?" before destroying enemy targets?  What are you, the UN?  :neener:


After studying your screenshots in depth, I think I see the source of your problem.  It appears you didn't defend your bases.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Wab






Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline JunkyII

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8428
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2010, 03:37:51 PM »
Alright I understand what you're saying.  I'm trying to look at this as the decisions my squad makes when we go on a bombing run.  I'd say often we try to create our own fight and rile up fighters at fields.

My sqaud does to, we would rather fight against a little off odds instead of the no enemy or too many enemy odds you see alot in the MA

Still, this is only IF we attack that base.  If we do, our hope is to 'shut off the tap' of enemy fighters allowing the green mass to shift closer to the enemy field.  Most of the time though, only a couple minutes after, the fight has pretty much returned to normal.  It's ineffective and I don't believe we choose to do it often, but that may be why others do.
 
If the hangars go down pretty fast then it normally takes awhile to get back to "normal" sometimes it doesnt if you have anyone deacking the field.

I have a question for a bomber jock like yourself. Whats the difference between hitting an ords/fuel/ack gun/ radar/ barracks and hiting a hangar other then they cause planes to not spawn when they are down?

 :salute
DFC Member
Proud Member of Pigs on the Wing
"Yikes"

Offline JunkyII

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8428
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2010, 03:42:46 PM »

Wait, you want people to ask "Mother May I?" before destroying enemy targets?  What are you, the UN?  :neener:


I have worked for the UN before does that count?  :aok



After studying your screenshots in depth, I think I see the source of your problem.  It appears you didn't defend your bases.
You notice that in all the screen shots there is more red dar then green right? Its hard to tell what dar is a buff, which is a fighter.....look the same to me so I dont know buffs are coming in till too late normally. Also in a furball there is normally enough fighters to keep them busy enough.......I just repeated myself again....I had an answer to your arguement in the OP :aok :salute
DFC Member
Proud Member of Pigs on the Wing
"Yikes"

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2010, 04:02:23 PM »
I have worked for the UN before does that count?  :aok

You notice that in all the screen shots there is more red dar then green right? Its hard to tell what dar is a buff, which is a fighter.....look the same to me so I dont know buffs are coming in till too late normally. Also in a furball there is normally enough fighters to keep them busy enough.......I just repeated myself again....I had an answer to your arguement in the OP :aok :salute


Sorry, the OP is just to rambling for me to bother with.  It reads like the Una-bomber manifesto.  Is there a concise version?


I think it boils down to this:


Junky:  Bad guys smashed my hangars and I don't like that.

Wabbit:  Then ... stop them.

Junky:  But its hard to stop them.

Wabbit:  War is Hell.


Does that cover it?

Regards,
Wab

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline 1Boner

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2285
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2010, 04:04:52 PM »
Aces High isn't about promoting the dogfight, it is about winning the war.

Not too sure about the winning the war part, but its certainly NOT about dogfighting.

"Life is just as deadly as it looks"  Richard Thompson

"So umm.... just to make sure I have this right.  What you are asking is for the bombers carrying bombs, to stop dropping bombs on the bombs, so the bombers can carry bombs to bomb things with?"  AKP

Offline Jayhawk

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3909
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2010, 04:06:07 PM »

Sorry, the OP is just to rambling for me to bother with.  It reads like the Una-bomber manifesto.  Is there a concise version?


I think it boils down to this:


Junky:  Bad guys smashed my hangars and I don't like that.

Wabbit:  Then ... stop them.

Junky:  But its hard to stop them.

Wabbit:  War is Hell.


Does that cover it?

Regards,
Wab


No, I don't think that's what he is saying.

does this cover your post:

'I'm too lazy to read your post but listen to ME, ME, ME!'
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 04:13:11 PM by Jayhawk »
LOOK EVERYBODY!  I GOT MY NAME IN LIGHTS!

Folks, play nice.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2010, 04:12:14 PM »
No, I don't think that's what he is saying.

does this cover your post:

'I'm too lazy to read your post but listen to ME, ME ME!'


Can you set me straight?  This is the closest thing I found to the point being made:

Quote
All the screenshots above are

instances where dropping the FH was not necessary, and them being down ruined peoples fights(publically stated

on 200/country). Before you hit a base with buffs please ask if its a furball or take, if its a furball....hit the town

there is more points there anyway and it has to come down to take the base.



He doesn't like the enemy destroying his hangars.  He is telling the enemy in what order they should destroy his structure.  Or telling them to ask permission first.

My suggestion is that he stop the bombers or take out the ord from the fields they are launching from.

Or else learn to live with wrecked hangars. LoL.

Regards,
Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Jayhawk

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3909
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2010, 04:12:31 PM »
I have a question for a bomber jock like yourself. Whats the difference between hitting an ords/fuel/ack gun/ radar/ barracks and hiting a hangar other then they cause planes to not spawn when they are down?

 :salute

Hmm... well we do bomb other things, ords, radar, and barracks the most often.  Bombing fuel is just worthless.  I'd say we do for a couple of reasons, the first being the strategy of other friendlies coming in behind us to take the base.  That's a big part of it, we rarely take down a field without announcing our intentions on country to see if anyone wants to slide on in behind us.  Second is to stop planes from upping at the field to attack our base. And honestly the third reason is probably just because it's fun to shut down a field.  It's satisfying to render a field useless for 15 minutes, even if nothing comes from it.
LOOK EVERYBODY!  I GOT MY NAME IN LIGHTS!

Folks, play nice.

Offline Jayhawk

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3909
Re: Whats wrong with these screenshots?
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2010, 04:17:26 PM »

Can you set me straight?  This is the closest thing I found to the point being made:


He doesn't like the enemy destroying his hangars.  He is telling the enemy in what order they should destroy his structure.  Or telling them to ask permission first.

My suggestion is that he stop the bombers or take out the ord from the fields they are launching from.

Or else learn to live with wrecked hangars. LoL.

Regards,
Wab

If you've been reading my post as well you'll see I, for the most part, disagree with him.  But this is a just a discussion on the topic, there is nothing wrong with just talking about it.

Just give it a day or two and it'll degrade into personal attacks when we've started to repeat ourselves but want to have the last word.  :rofl
LOOK EVERYBODY!  I GOT MY NAME IN LIGHTS!

Folks, play nice.