flat turn pusuit in ww1

[stephen]

its odd how an nme can turn 180 degrees and reliably end up at 200 off my tail no matter what im flying, when im dead level and running hell-bent for leather... did ww1 planes really retain energy that well?

[Motherland]

There's not much energy to retain in the first place... there's only a 30-40 mph difference between stall speed and max level speed in WWI.

[MachFly]

When such things happen to me (used to happen) I would record it and analyze the energy state. Usually figure something out.

You can post the video here, I'd be happy to look at it for you.

[trotter]

Given equal energy states at the merge, the bandit will quite naturally be slower than you upon completing a 180 degree turn. I think the problem, as Bubi stated, is that there is such a small difference between his reduced energy state and your max speed that he is able to get on your six at 200 with separation between your planes growing too slowly for you to avoid getting shot. You are indeed outrunning him, just not at a very fast clip.

That's what makes WWI fighting very interesting...it's VERY difficult to disengage once fully committed, however it's VERY possible to avoid becoming fully committed, if your SA is constantly at 110%. A dual edged sword...nobody is going to run you down with an LA-7 style on-the-deck monster, but you also don't have the advantage of using one.

[Ack-Ack]

its odd how an nme can turn 180 degrees and reliably end up at 200 off my tail no matter what im flying, when im dead level and running hell-bent for leather... did ww1 planes really retain energy that well?

You're going to find that the problem isn't the other planes at all but rather with the pilot.  It's a case of the pilot not knowing what the plane he's flying is capable and not capable of, as well as the planes he's flying against. 


ack-ack

[LesterBoffo]

There's not much energy to retain in the first place... there's only a 30-40 mph difference between stall speed and max level speed in WWI.

 Not quite,  Most WWI fighter planes could be landed at 35~45 MPH.  There's a telling Youtube video from Shuttleworth Air Museum a made many years back, where their Bentley Camel takes off after about 200' of run, flys around for a bit, then does the nicest three pointer at about 38 mph. Yet the Camel had a level speed of about 115 mph.

[715]

When the enemy does a break turn onto your six he doesn't end up at 35 mph.  It's more like 70 mph.  If he times his turn properly he could end up on your six at 0 yds.  If he's going 70 mph and you're going 115 mph then it will take you 18 seconds to pull ahead to 400 yds.  All that time he can be pinging you.  And the time is actually much longer because he accelerates to faster than 70 mph as he tails you.

In my experience it is a very bad idea to try to disengage when 1 on 1.  However it can work if you try to pick targets already engaged in furballs; you can often ping one or more yet they may not follow on your six as they stay engaged in a turning battle with other targets allowing you to extend through.

[LesterBoffo]

Are we talking accelerated speed stalls or stall stalls?      Most WWI aircraft stall in level flight at anywhere from 35 to 45 mph.  And your assuming I meant accelerated stalls.  I know the difference.

[stephen]

Leave it to Ack-Ack to fill in the blanks..., lol

[Ack-Ack]

Leave it to Ack-Ack to fill in the blanks..., lol

Be more specific on how you're getting your arse handed to you in a WW1 kite and eventually you'll realize that it's not the plane that is the problem.


ack-ack

[Rebel]

Turn smarter, not harder.

[LesterBoffo]

Turn smarter, not harder.

   AKA "Know your kite's limitations". This focus on skidding turns has me wondering about the flight modeled side area of these birds.   Has anyone attempted a knife edge?  If you can successfully pull off a knife edge in any of these crates, there's something seriously wrong with the flight modeling.  Skidding flat turns should not be the best option of out turning someone on your six.

[FLS]

   AKA "Know your kite's limitations". This focus on skidding turns has me wondering about the flight modeled side area of these birds.   Has anyone attempted a knife edge?  If you can successfully pull off a knife edge in any of these crates, there's something seriously wrong with the flight modeling.  Skidding flat turns should not be the best option of out turning someone on your six.

Are you joking? A knife edge is a 90 degree roll from level flight. Why would that be a problem?

[PFactorDave]

Are you joking? A knife edge is a 90 degree roll from level flight. Why would that be a problem?

Ya, but can you hold the plane in the knife edge without losing your altitude?  I'm pretty sure that that is what he meant.

[stephen]

Im pretty sure that the lead statemant speaks for itself.., perhaps you should learn what the term, "180 degrees" means before attempting to ask for verifacation on what is a very simple manuever..., but ill break down for you so that you might understand...

180 degrees, refers to aircraft "turning" around, and flying in the "opposite" direction from whence the "turn" began.

If you require further information, I suggest you refer to wikipedia..., though im positive you know about the site allready, as most of your posts have thier origin there.

Clairify?