Industrial wind farms

[saggs]

Never runs out?  What happens when the wind stops blowing?  Or blows too hard? What about when the machines themselves fail?  I'd hate to see the bill for the purchase and installation of a new gearbox on one of those things.

[druski85]

Sure winds patterns can change, but usually over a long period of time, and don't ya think they look into these things when building these farms.

As wind power becomes more prevalent, prices for replacement parts should drop.

1st part = Yes, they do.  My friend was a meteorology major and is now employed by a company outside of Albany, NY.  Predicting viable wind farm locations and monitoring existing ones is her full time job.  

2nd part = Absolutely, which is why while I understand Sluggish's point, I still don't think it is entirely valid.  Once the machines are tooled, their "energy input" cost becomes lessened with every part they produce.  (And yes sir, I understand how a value chain works...its kind of what I do )

Wind is still not my "favorite" type of power, which goes hands down to solar.  I just don't think it is Satan incarnate as some seem to, nor a waste of our time and effort.

[saggs]

When the wind stops blowing.    Sure winds patterns can change, but usually over a long period of time, and don't ya think they look into these things when building these farms.

I'm sure they are expensive to repair, but I'm sure other sources are very expensive as well.  As wind power becomes more prevalent, prices for replacement parts should drop.

I drove past many a wind mill in central/eastern Montana just last week.  Even up there the wind isn't blowing 24/7.  And on one farm the windmills were all feathered and stopped because the wind was blowing too hard.  It's not like the harder the wind blows the more energy they produce, those turbines are designed to be spun at a certain speed, and the blades feather in different wind to get to the right speed.  But if it blows too hard they feather completely to stop turning and prevent damage.

Building wind farms is fine and dandy, just don't think it's the end-all and be-all to our energy needs.

[Jayhawk]

1st part = Yes, they do.  My friend was a meteorology major and is now employed by a company outside of Albany, NY.  Predicting viable wind farm locations and monitoring existing ones is her full time job.  

2nd part = Absolutely, which is why while I understand Sluggish's point, I still don't think it is entirely valid.  Once the machines are tooled, their "energy input" cost becomes lessened with every part they produce.  (And yes sir, I understand how a value chain works...its kind of what I do )

Wind is still not my "favorite" type of power, which goes hands down to solar.  I just don't think it is Satan incarnate as some seem to, nor a waste of our time and effort.

Well allrighty then.  

[saggs]

Wind is still not my "favorite" type of power, which goes hands down to solar.  I just don't think it is Satan incarnate as some seem to, nor a waste of our time and effort.

What kind or solar, when I studied this stuff 8 yrs ago in college, photovoltaic solar cells were still incredibly inefficient.  I'm just curious if the technology has improved since then.  Or are you talking about concentrated solar, or passive?

I remember learning about a power plant in France I think it was, which used giant parabolic mirrors to focus solar energy and super heat a natural spring to turn steam turbines, seemed like a neat idea.  That is, untill the sun goes down.

[edog1977]

The other is completely renewable, will never run out, and emits nothing.

This windmill appears to be emitting something.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKkTUY2slYQ&feature=related

I bet that smoke is far more toxic than anythig a coal burning power plant puts out.

[sluggish]

I'm really surprised with the number of anti-wind power people.  Not doubting you sluggish, but where are you getting your numbers from?

I'm not a numbers guy; I'm an ideas guy.  When thinking of things like this, it's better to stand back and take in everything.  What are the motivations for things?  If wind and solar are the answer why don't people take out loans and install systems to make themselves self sufficient?  I don't think it's so much about energy conservation and looking to the next energy source as it is keeping people busy and moving money around.  It's about jobs.  If they just came out and said that it was about job creation and moving money around to give the impression of wealth creation and conservation (which is what it is) then I probably wouldn't be as skeptical about the motives.  But to just say Hey!  It's green and never gets depleted!  It's free energy!  Well... That's just a flat-out lie...  I have to question the motivations.

[Skuzzy]

Uh, nuclear power plants produce plenty of extremely dangerous by-products.  Those cooling rods have to be replaced periodically and they are very dangerous to deal with.

Nuclear power plants also have a shelf life.  After they are shutdown, they are left to rot where they stand.  They cannot be rebuilt or refurbished as the core materials have all started breaking down to thier elemental components.

Nuclear is not cheap.  It is not free and no one has made any profit from them to date.  If they were not government subsidized, they would bankrupt the companies that run them.

I am not saying wind power is a solution.  The current implementations are poorly thought out.  They could do much better.

[68ZooM]

Yea it is its called a electrical fire, not as worse as say..... petroleum plants exploding spewing toxins, or railcars derailed and burning spewing chemical toxins, or coal driven powerplants having fires or the neighbors house burning, frankly i don't see your point, other than the electrical fire on a wind generator, that happens mostly due to poor maintenance, don't know where the video was filmed, i couldn't understand him.

[sluggish]

Yea it is its called a electrical fire, not as worse as say..... petroleum plants exploding spewing toxins, or railcars derailed and burning spewing chemical toxins, or coal driven powerplants having fires or the neighbors house burning, frankly i don't see your point, other than the electrical fire on a wind generator, that happens mostly due to poor maintenance, don't know where the video was filmed, i couldn't understand him.

It's in Spain.  Do you think that turbine will ever reach the break-even point?

[xNOVAx]

I'm not a numbers guy; I'm an ideas guy.

Numbers > Ideas.. Period..

Personal feelings are irrelevant when you're trying to talk about something measurable..

[john9001]

- Though I'm not worried about nuclear radiation seeping out of nuclear plants, I think the concern about a meltdown is valid.  It has happened before, yes they have very complex systems to prevent it, but a failure is always possible.

how many nuclear plants are there in the world, how many years have they been operating, and how many have had a "melt down"?

[AKKuya]

Solar and wind generation will not solve the world's energy production needs 100% by themselves.  They do help lessening the strain from nuclear, coal, and hydro generation plants. 

[68ZooM]

It's in Spain.  Do you think that turbine will ever reach the break-even point?

whether it makes a profit or not is determined by who's running the show, that one in that video is a total waste, not all of it is the base and blades could be used or saved, now theres no way of knowing if the cost has been recovered yet or not. theres nothing wrong with alternative ways of generating power, the only ones that don't like are the ones that monopolize it now and don't want to see there profits go down.  

[druski85]

What kind or solar, when I studied this stuff 8 yrs ago in college, photovoltaic solar cells were still incredibly inefficient.  I'm just curious if the technology has improved since then.  Or are you talking about concentrated solar, or passive?

I remember learning about a power plant in France I think it was, which used giant parabolic mirrors to focus solar energy and super heat a natural spring to turn steam turbines, seemed like a neat idea.  That is, untill the sun goes down.

Not sure what it was at when you studied it saggs, but nowadays you can get expensive photovoltaic around 40% efficiency. A german company actually just created one that runs at 41.4% efficiency, but it is still prohibitively expensive.  Standard home - mounted systems generally run closer to 20%.  Also, they haven't quite locked this down yet, but this technology looks promising: http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1329/  

Honestly though one of my favorite things about solar is that (unlike wind) it can be used in a residential context in a non-intrusive manor.    

Obviously this technology is not something that works in all places, but if you get enough sunlight hours it's a worthy investment.  Consider this:

I'm not saying we should depend on it entirely as a country, but as a supplemental power source I'd personally love to see more of it.