A properly-modelled Scarff ring-mounting for the Bristol F2B

[Simba]

This ol' cat has flown the AH Bristol Fighter and found it particularly wanting in one crucial respect - the field of fire of the Lewis gun wielded by the Poor Bloody Observer (PBO) is inadequate when compared to the real thing.

The PBO's Lewis (or Lewises, if he was using the double-gun 'Huntley and Palmer' set-up) was mounted on the Scarff No.2 ring (known officially in the RFC as the No.3 Mk.II Barbette). The AH model's gun is modelled as if it's fitted rigidly to the yoke instead of on the spigot that allowed movement in both azimuth and elevation independent of the yoke.

Here's a diagram of the Scarff No.2 ring:



A, B  and C show the ring construction; D shows the backrest (not always fitted); E shows the position of the 'Sandow' [aerolastic or 'bungee'] in stretched (active) and released (inactive) position. The cord was supposed to be released when the ring was not in use otherwise it deteriorated. When twin guns were mounted thicker cord had to be used.

Next, here's a picture of a Bristol's Scarff ring:



Note that the bracket for the Lewis gun is pointing downwards; it was also capable of being pointed upwards to an equal degree, and swivelled to the left and right. The range of movement of the Lewis gun was only limited by the need for the PBO to get behind it to sight it. He would raise or lower the yoke to the required setting by squeezing the lever underneath; a set of rods inside the yoke caused teeth to engage the quadrants, so holding the yoke in the position required when the lever was released. If he lowered the yoke to its lowest setting and swivelled the ring to left or right, he could fire downwards to the rear and sides as well as upwards.

Here's a picture of the twin-Lewis setup on a RAF RE8:



See the angle of the guns are high relative to the Scarff ring yoke; they're pointing higher than is possible with the AH offering. The PBO couldn't move them much to the left or right at such an angle without fouling the yoke but he'd have no trouble swivelling a single Lewis, or the pair if he was standing up and firing downwards.

The pictures and diagram were taken from Early Aircraft Armament: The Aeroplane and the Gun up to 1918 by Harry Woodman; 1989, Arms and Armour Press, London, ISBN 0-85368-990-3.

I'm no programmer so I can't advise HT how to model it - but I would like a proper chance to shoot at the Huns - or my own wings or tail off - while using a proper Scarff ring No.2.

   
 

[Treize69]

I agree with the post, but I see no pictures.

[Simba]

Sorry, Treize, I'm trying to get the right code for them from Photobucket, then you will.

 

[Baumer]

See my post in the Aircraft form,

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,285623.0.html

or just look at this;

[Treize69]

Sorry, Treize, I'm trying to get the right code for them from Photobucket, then you will.

 

Sweet. I agree with your wish wholeheartedly (except probably when I'm saddled up on one with a rear gunner...), but without diagrams and the like to prove it, it probably won't get fixed.

I know the few times I've hopped into a Brisfit, thats my only real issue with it. And its something that almost everyone has already learned to take advantage of too.

[Simba]

Beautiful photos, Baumer, thanks for sharing them. As you've noticed, I've managed to post mine up now too - phew, what a malarky.

I think we've made a good enough case and provided sufficient images for all but the most unwilling programmer to be able to model an accurate Scarff No.2 ring. And surely we don't have unwilling programmers working for AH? 

The identity of the erk who first called the Bristol Fighter a 'Brisfit' is lost in the mists of time - but those mists don't go back as far as 1914-1918. The epithet (short for 'Bristol Misfit') was first used in the 1920s, when the type was growing old and much abused in its role as the RAF's flying police-horse in Iraq and India. In its heyday as the best two-seater war-horse on the Western Front it was called the 'Biff' or just plain 'Bristol Fighter' by those who flew and maintained it. This ol' cat, being honoured by his association with No.6 Squadron, aka 'Shiny Six' and the last RAF squadron to fly the type operationally, will never ever refer to Frank Barnwell's great design by anything else but its proper name.

My other wish is for the Royal Aircraft Factory's FE2b, BE2c and RE8. No.6 Squadron RFC was the first to equip with the 'Fee' when it took on the first twelve FE2a aircraft produced, later flew the BE2c and BE2e, and re-equipped with the RE8 during April 1917, flying the 'Harry Tate' until re-equipping with the Bristol when it became the premier squadron in Iraq in 1919. Flying accurate models of those types, I'll be happy to provide the AH Huns with something to shoot at. I'll be even happier if we get some bombs to drop and artillery to spot for.

Cheers! 

 

 

[Krusty]

See my question in the other thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,285623.0.html

[Baumer]

CC Krusty I believe that I mentioned that it would be hard to model. I am not sure how to do it either, with the existing control set.

An idea I've been toying with is this;

Once in the gunners position, toggle to the "Mouse Gunners" view (for lack of a better term [maybe shift H]). So then the ring's rotation, and bar elevation, are slaved to the joystick, but the gun would be slaved to your mouse. However, I'm not sure the gunner would have the true "view" over the gun, I'm not exactly sure how much range of movement he had.

Baumer