F4U Ground Loop on Landing

[Minotaur]

I'm still working on this one.  I just started re-flying the F4U-1C.  Something changed, I assume as of FM 104.  

It always seems to want to do a right hand ground loop after touchdown and about 80-90 mph.  I seem to always wack of my left wingtip and my left aileron.  

Grrr.....

How the heck do you land the dang thing?
I don't have the nack of it.

Do other planes in AH exibit this behavior?
I have not noticed it.

Is an actual flight characteristic of the F4U?
I have not heard of it.

I'll take and appreciate any advice I get on this topic.  

Thanks in advance!  

BTW! --> "Ok herr bovine god."  
Vermillion

This blessing can be flowered upon anyone I assume.  I'm not sure that I have reached god status, but I have been a Demi-God for some time now.  All you have to do is stump the "Confused Coloration MicroSaurus".  


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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble

[Gunthr]

Yep, same here. I couldn't figure why it would want to swing right on the roll-out...even though the engine was idleing from a quarter mile out with no power changes. I can't explain it.

What I do to avoid this is use full flaps and hold it a foot off the runway as long as you can... until it slows so much it stalls and drops onto the runway. Then use the space bar to stop while you keep holding the stick back to keep the tail pegged. It won't swing on you.

Funny thing, I landed a CHOG the other day that was missing both outer wing panels... and it was not on a runway, it was in a meadow near a vehicle base. I was cackling over that one! I was taxiing up and down hills to get to the hanger. Turns out that having only 2 stubs is better and more stable than having 1 whole wing and 1 stub...
   


[This message has been edited by Gunthr (edited 10-07-2000).]

[RangerBob]

If you have toe brakes on a set of pedals landing the F4u now is a breeze. Just set up your toe brakes in AH Joystick, and use them to steer when landing. As soon as your down and ready to apply brakes hit both toe brakes at the same time, and then release one or the other slightly to steer. You'll stop much faster than using the spacebar. I'm not sure how they might work on a keyboard, but you can always try it.

If you don't have the toe brakes you must use rudder, but as she slows down you will probably lose rudder control. Before toe brakes I used to set her down very easily at stall speed with full flaps. This takes a bit of practice, but you can set it right at the end of the runway if you want to practice for upcoming aircraft carriers.

Of course, you are using rudder to stay lined up for the landing, but expect to use a lot more rudder as soon as you are down on the field. It takes some practice, and you may have to rapidly move the rudders one way and then the other just to keep her straight.

Practice makes perfect, and the best landing practice in an F4u is to make sure you never use auto takeoff. Practicing takeoffs in the F4u will make you a better landing pilot.

It's much easier with this new version. Toe brakes, such as those on the CH Products USB Pro Pedals, are excellent.

Ranger Bob

[Vosper]

I've had this more times than I care to remember.  What I found that works (not having tried the toebrake trick yet) is just letting it roll down the runway slowing on its own WITHOUT touching the spacebar brake.  I don't even try to set the tail down, I let it drop on it's own.

I give left rudder tweaks anytime I even think the nose is heading right, and it seems to work.  By the time the tail drops, I find it's usually safe to brake.

Cheers

PS - So far, no other plane I regularly use does this; it seems to be unique to the Corsairs.

[Citabria]

its so simple!

keep tailwheel on ground till 100mph

you will never groundlop again

[Replicant]

I've found that too.  I find full flaps, bit of throttle and stall speed and when you touch down keep the bit of throttle until the tail is down.  Apply the brakes gently on and off until pretty slow, then reduce throttle down to zero.

Well, it works for me, but then I still get caught out from time to time!  

Regards

'Nexx'

[CavemanJ]

what citabria said.

When I land the hawg I stand on the brakes, using the rudder to keep'er straight.
As soon as the airspeed drops to 100 I ease the stick back and plant the tailwheel on the runway, letting off the rudder as it touches.  Then just keep the tailwheel planted and correct as needed

[Jigster]

Actually I think it IS a bug.

C-47 does it too (Care to explain that?   )

I've had it happen where I was braking just fine, tail wheel down and all good, soon as I got under 50 mph it seemed like one of the brakes locked up and flipped me sideways.

- Jig

[Duckwing6]

Same prob .. and i'm not really a newbie F4U flyer..

I settle the tail wheel as soon as any possible but even if she's tracking straight untill about 60 mph then she get's an extremely strong urge to look at the right side of the runway.. maybe the grass is greener there  dunno ..

i tried everything up to "walking" the diff breaks ..

now i don't break every Hog .. but it happens often enoough fer sure

[Suave1]

That plane has always been wacky on the ground. Just taxiing to the rearming point is scary. I've known about holding the tail down since 1.02 but still it sometimes flips out on me like a mechanical bull .

[flakbait]

Seen this far too many times in the F4U-1D. I try to practice my slow speed landings in the D Hawg. Full flaps, engine at idle, just let her drop like a rock. Add power in order to rotate and land normally. I can touch down just fine, but at 50-60mph it wants to go all over the place. I have to use a LOT of rudder, both ways, to correct and keep straight. I nearly had a head-on collision with a friendly Lancaster in a H2H game because of this.

I hit the brakes as normal [button on my stick] and it slowed just fine. When the speed hit 50mph or so she went nuts! I swerved over onto another runway and nearly ended up giving that friendly Lanc a new hood ornament. I don't fly the Corsair often, but I know how to land the darn thing. Landing a 109 G6 with no engine is more of a challenge than landing an F4U. Beats me as to why this happens.

I've had ground loops with the P-47D-30 and Typhoon as well. They try to ground loop if you hit the brakes while going 100+. I've flipped four Typhoons in one 25 minute time period just trying to stop. Hitting the brakes in either plane over 75mph is suicidal with full flaps. Ever try taking off only to see someone cranking at the other end? I have. Hit the brakes on the P-47D-30 I was driving and promptly flipped it. Speed was just over 120mph, but I was loaded with a pair of 1k bombs plus rockets.

One other thing I experienced was the port wheel brake locking up. I was at a re-arm point, just finished up with re-fuel and re-arm, and I stomped the left brake while adding gas. The aircraft did a nice piroette on the left gear leg; 180º too. I checked the MAN pressure; 24" was what it was at. Tried the same thing with the right brake and didn't get any reaction.


Another odd problem: Bf-109 F4 and the C.202. Hit the brakes and the aircraft levels off like it's flying. Tail wheel doesn't want to touch down until you're stopped.

Could all of these correspond to using a j-stick button for brakes?




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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000

[Rocket]

For me the following is my landing procedure in the hog.  Works 95% of the time without ground loops.

1. Pull MAN back to 0
2. Start side slip to slow down
3. Drop gear to induce drag.
4. Drop flaps until fully extended
5. Use Throttle to maintain glide speed/path.
6. Upon wheels down rollout until less than 50mph
7. Under 50 start to use brakes

If I brake above 50mph she will ground loop almost everytime.  If I try to rudder she will whip around then ground loop.  I try to maintain a straight glide path and just let her roll down below 50mph and then apply normal brakes and voila no loopy  

S!
Rocket

[Rickenbacker]

I always land the way I would in real life, i.e. fly the plane down to about a foot or two above the runway, then hold it there until it stalls into a perfect three-pointer landing. I then hold the tail down and brake as much as I have to to stop in time.

When taxiing a taildragger, pull the stick back into your gut and _hold_ it there no matter what. Don't ever let the stick go, or god forbid push it forward, and you'll have no problems on the ground.

When taking off the idea is to first hold the tail down, then gently let it up when speed increases. Stay on top of that rudder, though, or you'll ground loop easily (I do this every once in a while when I get too lazy). Once you have flying speed, no worries  .


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        Rickenbacker (Ricken)

                -ISAF-
the Independent Swedish Air Force

[Ripsnort]

I do what Rangerbob and Rocket do, and it requires your full concentration.

Ask Skuzzy about my Con landings, while talking, typing and trying to land the F4U  

[Minotaur]

I pretty much figured out my own method and can now land it 95% of the time successfully.

The runway is long and I don't worry about stopping my A/C fast.  I let it coast with full flaps and slightly back elevator till it slows down.

Here is the trick.  After touchdown, I really key in on the bubble.  I use quick rudder movements and keep that sucker perfectly centered.  Always "Stepping on the bubble", I have no problems now.

I have noticed that the bubble for most planes really gets out of whack after landing, but the A/C will not ground loop.  This made me lazy in regards to the F4U.  

For example; The La5 will not ground loop for a bubble that is pegged hard left.  So pretty much, all I did was use the rudder to center the A/C on the runway and I learned to ignore the bubble.  

Regarding the F4U you have to carefully watch the bubble after touchdown, this is your primary concern.  Your secondary concern is to use the rudder and keep it centered down the runway.  Which really is not difficult.

As a side note, anyone notice how the P-51 will do an "End Over" flip if you apply the brakes at around 60mph and hold them?  It is really embarassing the 1st time as you flip over, in a flaming fireball, the hot reload pad.  

Good Luck!  

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble