Author Topic: Court Date  (Read 1353 times)

Offline Serenity

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Court Date
« on: March 23, 2010, 02:04:33 AM »
For those of you who remember the old speeding ticket thread, my first court date is tomorrow. Just thought I would let you all know.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 03:16:24 AM »
For those of you who remember the old speeding ticket thread, my first court date is tomorrow. Just thought I would let you all know.

Whew...glad you did.  I was on pins and needles and now I can rest easy knowing all is well in the world.


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Offline kilo2

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 03:49:45 AM »
Better hope the cop does not show up and it is dismissed.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 04:35:46 AM »
Whew...glad you did.  I was on pins and needles and now I can rest easy knowing all is well in the world.


ack-ack

I'm glad to know I set your mind at ease!

However, in an honest answer to your sarcasm, quite a few members asked to be kept up to date on this, so that's what Im doing.

Offline VonMessa

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 05:06:56 AM »
Better hope the cop does not show up and it is dismissed.

Don't bank on this.

That does not always apply.

Some municipalities, have an officer appointed as a representative for all police in their particular jurisdiction.  He gets briefed the morning of, with all facts regarding the cases pending for the day.

It saves the municipality manpower and $$$.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 05:47:37 AM »
Don't bank on this.

That does not always apply.

Some municipalities, have an officer appointed as a representative for all police in their particular jurisdiction.  He gets briefed the morning of, with all facts regarding the cases pending for the day.

It saves the municipality manpower and $$$.

Can't you fight that though? Bill of Rights says you may face your accuser in a court of law. An accuser cannot be appointed to my knowledge...

Offline Regular

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 06:15:58 AM »
For those of you who remember the old speeding ticket thread, my first court date is tomorrow. Just thought I would let you all know.


I hate people who don't know how to drive.

Offline skribetm

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 06:21:21 AM »
Can't you fight that though? Bill of Rights says you may face your accuser in a court of law. An accuser cannot be appointed to my knowledge...

the state/local govt is your accuser, not the cop personally.

Offline JunkyII

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 06:23:49 AM »
the state/local govt is your accuser, not the cop personally.
Yep the cop is just a long crooked arm of the Gov./mayor/ect......that can touch you and your wallet :t
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2010, 07:22:45 AM »
the state/local govt is your accuser, not the cop personally.

Precisely.   :aok

Around here it would be.....

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (or relevant municipality) vs. Poor Slob going too fast.

The most likely situation is that you will be offered a plea, right off the bat (i.e. Lesser speed and lesser fine, but the municipality still gets revenue, and a conviction)  Most folks will take the offer and run with it.  If you have balls and are lucky, you can bargain for a little more (i.e. a non-point violation) as having points against your license will jack your insurance rates, making the citation cost way more in the long run than what is written upon it.  Bear in mind, that if you don't take the offer and are found guilty, you will be paying the full fine and getting all the points that the violation carries.

However, if you feel you have a good chance of beating it and are well prepared, there is no reason not to fight it.  The worst case is that you are found guilty of exactly what you were cited for.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Using a "set" police officer to represent the municipality is usually used in situations where  there is a high volume of citations issued.  Without this representative there, there would be less of a chance of the issuing officer being present (i.e. being on-duty at time of hearing, having a day off and not wanting to come to work, etc)  It's cheaper for the govt, and usually gives them the same chance of winning, in most cases.

However, if you contest the citation, this gives you a better chance of winning because it is also a crap shoot for them.  They gamble on the preparedness of the issuing officer.  The only testimony or evidence that the "representative" is permitted to offer is what the issuing officer has in their written report.  He had better have a well prepared report that covers all his bases.  If one has a legitimate defense (for example: questioning the calibration of the device used to clock your speed) and the issuing officer has not provided proof of this (not a great example, as most DO include this certificate) then there really is no chance of rebuttal on the part of the municipality.  The "representative" cannot offer verbal testimony as he/she was not there.  The burden of proof lies with the prosecution.  If they cannot prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you are indeed guilty, with the facts that they have, then the Judge will have no choice but to find you not-guilty.  He may not like doing it, he may give the issuing officer an earful in private the next time he sees him, but what do you care?

This is very simplified, and I not an attorney by any stretch of the imagination.  This is from research, advice from my own counsel and practical application of my rights as a US Citizen.

Perhaps Oldman or some other community member that IS an attorney can lend some credence to this?

(** Edited for punctuation and grammar  ** )
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 07:26:24 AM by VonMessa »
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 07:28:55 AM »
For those of you who remember the old speeding ticket thread, my first court date is tomorrow. Just thought I would let you all know.

So I'm guessing you want us to bake you a cake with a file in it?  ;)

BTW, make sure you bring the money with you to be able to pay the fine.

Judges can get rather testy when you loose and you dont.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2010, 07:32:20 AM »
Can't you fight that though? Bill of Rights says you may face your accuser in a court of law. An accuser cannot be appointed to my knowledge...

i believe you can, although i'm not sure. here in new jersey, it HAS to be the officer that wrote ya.


good luck dude.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2010, 07:33:13 AM »
the state/local govt is your accuser, not the cop personally.

the cop personally will need to be there to verify he has the proper training in the usage of the laser, and that it was calibrated properly.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2010, 07:39:21 AM »
Precisely.   :aok

Around here it would be.....

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (or relevant municipality) vs. Poor Slob going too fast.

The most likely situation is that you will be offered a plea, right off the bat (i.e. Lesser speed and lesser fine, but the municipality still gets revenue, and a conviction)  Most folks will take the offer and run with it.  If you have balls and are lucky, you can bargain for a little more (i.e. a non-point violation) as having points against your license will jack your insurance rates, making the citation cost way more in the long run than what is written upon it.  Bear in mind, that if you don't take the offer and are found guilty, you will be paying the full fine and getting all the points that the violation carries.

However, if you feel you have a good chance of beating it and are well prepared, there is no reason not to fight it.  The worst case is that you are found guilty of exactly what you were cited for.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Using a "set" police officer to represent the municipality is usually used in situations where  there is a high volume of citations issued.  Without this representative there, there would be less of a chance of the issuing officer being present (i.e. being on-duty at time of hearing, having a day off and not wanting to come to work, etc)  It's cheaper for the govt, and usually gives them the same chance of winning, in most cases.

However, if you contest the citation, this gives you a better chance of winning because it is also a crap shoot for them.  They gamble on the preparedness of the issuing officer.  The only testimony or evidence that the "representative" is permitted to offer is what the issuing officer has in their written report.  He had better have a well prepared report that covers all his bases.  If one has a legitimate defense (for example: questioning the calibration of the device used to clock your speed) and the issuing officer has not provided proof of this (not a great example, as most DO include this certificate) then there really is no chance of rebuttal on the part of the municipality.  The "representative" cannot offer verbal testimony as he/she was not there.  The burden of proof lies with the prosecution.  If they cannot prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you are indeed guilty, with the facts that they have, then the Judge will have no choice but to find you not-guilty.  He may not like doing it, he may give the issuing officer an earful in private the next time he sees him, but what do you care?

This is very simplified, and I not an attorney by any stretch of the imagination.  This is from research, advice from my own counsel and practical application of my rights as a US Citizen.

Perhaps Oldman or some other community member that IS an attorney can lend some credence to this?

(** Edited for punctuation and grammar  ** )

ya know?

i just drove up to hershey on sunday, for some parts for my fairmont.

 crossing the walt whitman.......good.......ran straight up 76 till it merged with vine st/schukill expressway. about a mile or 2 before girard ave. exit(i think...where the zoo is), traffic went to crap. both lanes not moving over 20 mph for no reason.....till i got almost to plymouth meeting. from there on, it was smooth sailing, especially on the turnpike.
 was an enjoyable drive after that. 75-80mph all the way, no traffic jams, and the best part? there were plenty of people going faster than me, so there was never a worry of getting tagged by the state pd.  :aok
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Court Date
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2010, 07:47:42 AM »
Shame on you for not stopping by for a beer  :P

The reason for all the traffic being slow is the inability for drivers to grasp the (apparently difficult for them, anyhow) concept of merging. 

PA State troopers don't like stopping folks in the rain.  They know those condoms they put on their "Smokey-the-Bear" hats looks silly  :rofl
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