Icon Philosophy - Approach

[SEraider]

I have taken this idea from Jimson on A v A rocks but want to apply it to the MA.

What would happen is HiTech had one night a month (or at least try) no enemy icons, period.  The reason why is from 6k out you can tell what is coming to you or in the vecinity. This gives you time to adjust, angles, speed, altitude, ect as the other plane does (could) before engagment.  At 18,000 feet out you already know what you are going up against. 

I think the dynamics of a fight/furball would change if no icons were on and everybody would find out up close what they are dealing with.  I think this could be more realistic and make everybody approach a fight differently. 

If I am in a P51 up close versus a spit or A6M, and if I decide to run, the opponent because of close proximity has a chance to shoot me down and make me "fly" my way out of trouble versus, just run. 

Yes I know, I can turn icons off, but that is not what I am trying to do here.  It's for everybody. 

[Motherland]

The issue with it in the MA is that you wouldn't be able to ID a plane enemy or friendly with certainty until it is very close.

[LLogann]

In the MA......  Not until they shoot.  Or you shoot and killshoot yourself.  The idea has a little bit of merit for AvA, but that is the only place it can work.  Unless of course HTC decides to use rolling planesets and lose half the subscribers. 

The issue with it in the MA is that you wouldn't be able to ID a plane enemy or friendly with certainty until it is very close.

I sort of remember that as the downfall of some other, lesser, flight-combat sim.

[Dawger]

I am the biggest fan of no icon in the world but using it in an all planes all sides environment is silly.

It is a concept that appeals to a very small percentage of players and rightfully belongs in an arena that is not the main attraction.

AH does it right with plenty of choice in its primary arenas enabling a large enough player base to allow offshoots like the AvA.

[Motherland]

In the MA......  Not until they shoot.  Or you shoot and killshoot yourself.  The idea has a little bit of merit for AvA, but that is the only place it can work.  Unless of course HTC decides to use rolling planesets and lose half the subscribers. 

I sort of remember that as the downfall of some other, lesser, flight-combat sim.

If the enemy plane is clearly close enough that it would have an icon if it were a friendly, you can tell it is an enemy.

[gyrene81]

I sort of remember that as the downfall of some other, lesser, flight-combat sim.

Nah, that wasn't the downfall of it...it's stuck in the 90s with really stupid flight models for 90% of the aircraft in it...and the terrains stink.

But hey, it's been renamed, repackaged and is available to you for only $20 at your local gamestop.



Raider, though I like the idea it wouldn't work in the MA's...too many people flying on bare minimum settings with 15 inch laptops. The Main Arenas are for the general population and easy mode is default for a reason.

[dedalos]

I have taken this idea from Jimson on A v A rocks but want to apply it to the MA.

What would happen is HiTech had one night a month (or at least try) no enemy icons, period.  The reason why is from 6k out you can tell what is coming to you or in the vecinity. This gives you time to adjust, angles, speed, altitude, ect as the other plane does (could) before engagment.  At 18,000 feet out you already know what you are going up against. 

I think the dynamics of a fight/furball would change if no icons were on and everybody would find out up close what they are dealing with.  I think this could be more realistic and make everybody approach a fight differently. 

If I am in a P51 up close versus a spit or A6M, and if I decide to run, the opponent because of close proximity has a chance to shoot me down and make me "fly" my way out of trouble versus, just run. 

Yes I know, I can turn icons off, but that is not what I am trying to do here.  It's for everybody. 

Why not just go in the AvA then? 

[LLogann]

So not really "no icons" but maybe 1k Icon Range?  I wouldn't mind beta testing that idea for a while.   

If the enemy plane is clearly close enough that it would have an icon if it were a friendly, you can tell it is an enemy.

[The Fugitive]

a lot of people have the graphics turned down just to run the game. I think that would put them at a disadvantage to those with super computers.

[Krusty]

It's not system dependent... At 6K you cannot tell who is coming, going, a threat, or anything. At 6K all a plane is, is a "dot" on the screen.

I'm sorry, but the premise is faulty, and the resulting suggestion not applicable.

[Delirium]

I have a great computer and a big monitor, let me know when this will be.

Not so I can attend, but to make sure I don't log in. I have no interest in emulating 1945 Saburo Sakai with a stye in his one good eye.

[Crash Orange]

My thoughts:

1) Sure, eyesight was very important to RL WW2 pilots, but many (most?) of us are much older than any of them were at the time. Furthermore, most(all?) of our monitors don't have even remotely the same resolution as the vision of a young, healthy pilot. And our planes don't reflect the sun nearly as brightly as real ones. I can see an airliner flying overhead at 20k+ much better than I can make out a 6k+ dot in AH. All that adds up to this: Half or more of my deaths would to people I never saw not because I wasn't looking, but because they were smaller and more innocuous than a mote of dust on the monitor until it was too late to react at all.

There are many challenges I enjoy in this game, but testing my eyesight is not among them.

2) Assuming they'd still show up as red on the map, this would mean a huge increase in the value/tactical effectiveness of porking dar, because it would become the only reliable means of detecting enemies more than 2k out or so. IMHO dar is already too easy to pork and too frequently porked and this would only encourage it, but OTOH making it harder to pork would then give a huge advantage to defenders over what they have now.

3) Because of the above and the absence of ground controllers, clear and thorough communication of tactical info between all the members of a side would become much, much more important. I'm not sure our current radio capabilities could handle that much extra traffic, and it would be much tougher for newer players to learn and much more annoying for the veteran players having to hear the new players learning.

4) Couldn't the same thing be accomplished by having enemy icons at a certain range just be red range numbers, then as you got closer, 2 or 3k maybe, they would say "Ftr" or "Bmr" or "Hvy" (for 4-engine bombers), and only tell the plane type when you were up close - say, inside 1000 yards? That would satisfy the stated purpose - preventing players from having unrealistic knowledge of what they're facing 6k away - but wouldn't make as drastic changes to game balance as those outlined above.

[RufusLeaking]

... using it in an all planes all sides environment is silly.

Dawger is the only one addressing the obvious ...

How would one know if a P-51D is a rook, knight, or bishop?

No icons only works when the planes differ between countries, as in AvA.

[SEraider]

Dawger is the only one addressing the obvious ...

How would one know if a P-51D is a rook, knight, or bishop?

No icons only works when the planes differ between countries, as in AvA.

If I may clarify, friendly Icons on.  And maybe the a red country ensign could show.

[SEraider]

My thoughts:

1) Sure, eyesight was very important to RL WW2 pilots, but many (most?) of us are much older than any of them were at the time. Furthermore, most(all?) of our monitors don't have even remotely the same resolution as the vision of a young, healthy pilot. And our planes don't reflect the sun nearly as brightly as real ones. I can see an airliner flying overhead at 20k+ much better than I can make out a 6k+ dot in AH. All that adds up to this: Half or more of my deaths would to people I never saw not because I wasn't looking, but because they were smaller and more innocuous than a mote of dust on the monitor until it was too late to react at all.

There are many challenges I enjoy in this game, but testing my eyesight is not among them.

2) Assuming they'd still show up as red on the map, this would mean a huge increase in the value/tactical effectiveness of porking dar, because it would become the only reliable means of detecting enemies more than 2k out or so. IMHO dar is already too easy to pork and too frequently porked and this would only encourage it, but OTOH making it harder to pork would then give a huge advantage to defenders over what they have now.

3) Because of the above and the absence of ground controllers, clear and thorough communication of tactical info between all the members of a side would become much, much more important. I'm not sure our current radio capabilities could handle that much extra traffic, and it would be much tougher for newer players to learn and much more annoying for the veteran players having to hear the new players learning.

4) Couldn't the same thing be accomplished by having enemy icons at a certain range just be red range numbers, then as you got closer, 2 or 3k maybe, they would say "Ftr" or "Bmr" or "Hvy" (for 4-engine bombers), and only tell the plane type when you were up close - say, inside 1000 yards? That would satisfy the stated purpose - preventing players from having unrealistic knowledge of what they're facing 6k away - but wouldn't make as drastic changes to game balance as those outlined above.

Point well taken, especially #3 and #4.  I find no problem with your idea of "Ftr" or "Bmr" or "Hvy" (for 4-engine bombers). 

My idea is simply that our collective approach to combat would be different if we had no enemy or limited enemy icons.  I think it is a fair offset of the different stregnths of each aircraft.