Thought on new strat system

[RTHolmes]

I think the new strat system is really cool, how it works and how it looks.

I dont, apart from how it looks, and the dam flak towers (annoying but ).

Far from making the strat element of the game more useful/important, it has almost completely removed it from the game. I cant remember when I last saw any strat and the city both under 50% (ie. having any effect on field resupply.) If they are hit to any degree, they are an easy resupply because they are so deep in the territory.

there is now no penalty for advancing towards another countrys heartland, whereas before your forward bases really had to be resupplied by air or land, now there is no need because they pop as quickly as the defending countries bases. takes away the home advantage, making it easier to steamroll a country back to its untakeable bases.

all bases are now more strategically equal than before. with the zone system the intensity of the fight usually ramped up alot when a zone base was being attacked.

It has added to the motivation for hordeing. Previously if you had 3 forward zones and a rear HQ zone, players would tend to distribute across the 3 forward zones more. now one forward base is as important as another so only 1 or 2 bases are the focus of a fight.

the distances involved and the depth behind the lines have also lead to increasingly crazy high alt missions. the only real chance of inflicting any meaningful damage is to up in large numbers at max alt. all the strat missions I see these days are around 30k. I like jugs so I dont mind fighting at that alt, but there arent many that do, and fewer bothered to spend that long climbing up to be massively outnumbered (I am in the 2nd category...).


in short, the new strat system is a big step backwards. bring on the zones!

[Flayed]

The other night the rooks were deep into bish land so I figured I would go pork the troops/ord  at several of the bases on bish home turf. I didn't realize how ever that ALL zones were removed, somehow I was under the impression that each country still retained it's own zone while all smaller zones were removed.    So I was running flight after flight of B-26's bombing strat at 1 base and returning to base to get another flight and by the time I could go to pork the same base some more the strat I had just hit was already up..   Being in B-26's that operate at a much lower alt than 17's I figured I could pork these bases fairly quickly and have them stay down forcing rooks to resup them if they wanted to continue rolling fields, all the while sending rook after rook back to base for replacement radiators and engines.  

 Unfortunately with no home county zone the rooks strat city resups base strat on any base they owned weather or not it was home turf or not.  Even with coordinated efforts between between myself and the 91st bomb group we were unable to keep strat down on 2 bases long enough to see any effect at all.

  As far as I can tell the strat cities are a good addition though like some others have said they seem a lil far some times but the lack of even 1 zone per country to limit the reach of enemy strat repair into an enemy country I find it seems to have even less effect than it did before the change.   

[froger]

I disagree...

It's not only milk runners unhappy with the strat distances.

Most are at least 8 sectors back (if not 10+). That alone is going to take at least 2 hours (if not more) for a full round trip. Consider you have to start many bases back into YOUR territory as well, because you need to be at alt and speed when you hit the enemy front or you're toast. You can't still be climbing at that point.

Yes, I said ROUND TRIP, because us folks that like immersion don't bail after we bomb (hint hint, to you MA dweebs that do this, STOP!).

On top of that, because you're flying for hours on end through enemy territory, you cannot make it without at least 50 fighter escorts for every bomber formation in flight.

On top of that, before you're 2 sectors out (assuming you survive the drop and turn back for home!) the strats rebuild themselves, doing nothing to "help the war" (something milkrunners don't care about but bomber pilots do).

Overall I really hope it evolves into something WORTH bombing. Currently: It is not.

It looks nice, sure is sweet to watch go "boom" through the bombsight, but just not worth a 2-3 hour expedition along with all the coordination for something that's a fart in the wind against the enemy's warmaking machine.

10-4 
   I wont do it currently for all the reasons you have stated here.
I don't mind spending time with a buff run because i kinda like the whole proses but i wont climb to 20/25 k just to drop a few hangers or wreck a town to improve my score. guess i just don't have the commitment to do it.


froger

[thndregg]

Unfortunately with no home country zone the rooks strat city resups base strat on any base they owned weather or not it was home turf or not

It would be nice to have this resolved.

[Hap]

The other night the rooks were deep into bish land so I figured I would go pork the troops/ord  at several of the bases on bish home turf. I didn't realize how ever that ALL zones were removed, somehow I was under the impression that each country still retained it's own zone while all smaller zones were removed.    So I was running flight after flight of B-26's bombing strat at 1 base and returning to base to get another flight and by the time I could go to pork the same base some more the strat I had just hit was already up..   Being in B-26's that operate at a much lower alt than 17's I figured I could pork these bases fairly quickly and have them stay down forcing rooks to resup them if they wanted to continue rolling fields, all the while sending rook after rook back to base for replacement radiators and engines.  

 Unfortunately with no home county zone the rooks strat city resups base strat on any base they owned weather or not it was home turf or not.  Even with coordinated efforts between between myself and the 91st bomb group we were unable to keep strat down on 2 bases long enough to see any effect at all.

  As far as I can tell the strat cities are a good addition though like some others have said they seem a lil far some times but the lack of even 1 zone per country to limit the reach of enemy strat repair into an enemy country I find it seems to have even less effect than it did before the change.   

Here's the blurp from the directions:  The basic categories of strategy targets in Aces High include field targets, zone targets, city targets, and supply targets.
The field targets affect availability of field items such as planes, fuel, ammo, etc.  Every tower has a chalkboard displaying the field number and the current status of the field targets.

The zone targets are the factories that affect the resupply of field targets.

The city targets are the buildings within a city and they affect the resupply of the zone targets.

The supply targets are the trains, convoys, and barges that resupply damaged fields and factories. 

Strategic targets     
Target type   Target   Destroy with   Downtime   Effect   Supplier   Can be
resupplied
Field   Map room   10 troops   N/A   Captures field   N/A   No
Guns   1 100 lb   2 hours   Kills field ack   AAA factory   Yes
Radar   1 250 lb   2 hours   Kills field radar in a 12.5 mile radius   Radar factory   Yes
Ammo   1 250 lb   2 hours   Reduces bomb/rocket
loadout to zero   Ammo factory   Yes
Fuel   1 250 lb   2 hours   Reduces maximum
allowed fuel load   Fuel refinery   Yes
Barracks   1 250 lb   2 hours   Reduces troop loadout
to zero   Training facility   Yes
Fighter hangar   3 1000 lb   15 mins   Disables fighters at
the field   N/A   No
Bomber hangar   3 1000 lb   15 mins   Disables bombers at
the field   N/A   No
Vehicle hangar   3 1000 lb   15 mins   Disables vehicles at
the field   N/A   No
Shore battery   4 1000 lb   15 mins   Disables shore battery at the field   N/A   No
Town building   1 250 lb   45 mins   Kills town building to
allow for field capture   N/A   No
Zone   HQ   37 1000 lb   2 hours   Kills all radar for a
country   City building   Yes
AAA factory   1 250 lb   3 hours   Loads supplies for
field guns   City building   Yes
Radar factory   1 250 lb   3 hours   Loads supplies for
field radar   City building   Yes
Ammo factory   1 250 lb   3 hours   Loads supplies for
ammo at fields   City building   Yes
Fuel refinery   1 250 lb   3 hours   Loads supplies for
fuel tanks at fields   City building   Yes
Training facility   1 250 lb   3 hours   Loads supplies for
barracks at fields   City building   Yes
City   City building   1 250 lb   3 hours   Loads supplies for
factories and HQ   City building   Yes *
Supply   Train   1 100 lb   N/A   Stops train from
resupplying destination   N/A   N/A
Convoy   ½ 100 lb   N/A   Stops convoy from resupplying destination   N/A   N/A
Barge   ½ 100 lb   N/A   Stops barge from
resupplying destination   N/A   N/A
Ships   Primary ship   8 1000 lb   5 min   Sinks task group,
respawns at port   N/A   No
Other ships   2 1000 lb   1 hour   Sinks ship   N/A   No
Special Types   Barrier   N/A   N/A   Barrier   N/A   N/A
Structure   1 250 lb   45 minutes   An object any country can destroy   N/A   No
*  Each drop of convoy or train supplies on damaged city targets reduces the 3 hour downtime by 30 minutes.  Each drop of player supplies reduces the downtime by 15 minutes.

I asked HTC about this and was told that it works.  And as long as I have played, I've never seen a result at the base level which would lead one to the same conclusion.  However, I was told to get the 5 hour base level down time of, oh let's say ammo at an airfield, 3 things have to happen: City = 0%, Ammo Factory = 0, and a base that is fed by those two is porked.

Even so, it is still fun to get up there and see what can be done.  But it would be quite nice to be better rewarded for our efforts.

[BaldEagl]

I don't really ever see the strats in play anymore.  It used to be that they were always being hit and as such, had some impact on the game.  Now they're so far back and so well defended by auto ack no one wants to spend the time needed to go there and even if they do there's no lasting impact.  IMO, whether intended or not, HT has effectively eliminated strat play from the game.

[Kazaa]

Strats need to be closer to the action, they should a hive of activity.

[thndregg]

Perhaps bigger individual factories armed with just as many hardened flak towers to discourage score padders? Just shootin' in the dark here.

[Lusche]

I was welcoming the start change, and still think the basic idea is a good one. I just very quickly came to beloeve that the implementation was kinda rushed.

I really liked the high alt combats during the first weeks. But they quickly disappeared when the bomber guys found out that there is not much point in spending so much time to get to the best defended and most obvious target, and the fighter guys realized that there is no real need to intercept those 30k buffs.

I would like to see a somewhat more pronounced effect.

I would like to see (if possible) a 2-step retreat on large maps. Right now, losing a base near the initial strat position is the best thing for a country to happen. Also I would like to see all factories (not city) going to 0% when "retreating". Which is not only somewhat "realistic" (after all, you have to "rebuild" a factory at the new location), but also it's a reason to defend the bases near the strat cluster - you now have a region of increased importance, which is good for gameplay. And of course, I'd like to see the strats actually moving back if the bases are recaptured.

I would like to see the zone base concept brought back to AH. Mix the old and the new system. In place of the old factories or city, place a railyard. The factories will still have their usual effect, while the railyard will act as a kind of multiplier for it's zone: Destroy it and the resupply will be further reduced on that specific zone only.
That way, we will get some interesting battles "Alert zone base!", and another target for bombers, especially med bombers like the B-26 or Ju88. More variety in missions too.

  However, I was told to get the 5 hour base level down time of, oh let's say ammo at an airfield, 3 things have to happen: City = 0%, Ammo Factory = 0, and a base that is fed by those two is porked.

One minor thing: It's 2 hours of maximum downtime, not 5.

[Hap]

Strats need to be closer to the action, they should a hive of activity.

Nice!  The old Air Warrior Spit Factory thing comes to mind.  Hey, so many whines about ENY.  Not that this will pass muster, but scrap ENY as we know it.  Replace it with a Strat Destruction ENY or something like that.  That would create a hive of activity as long as they were not placed so far in the rear as to make them inaccessible.

[RTHolmes]

interesting to re-read the topic Hitech posted about this before the change.

most of the replies were +1 with no justification given.

the -1 replies generally had reasons given with them, most of which have turned out to be the case...

[Krusty]

Holmes, in my case it was a big +1 on the idea. However the implementation is still off.

It would be like if we got a He-111 but it was faster than a B17 and could dogfight like a zero and win. +1 for the idea of adding it, but -1 on the end result on gameplay.

[Warchief]

The problem with the current system as stated is the fact in no longer has any real impact. By the time you get mission coming and get back to your base after a very long flight all the damage you did to the strat is fixed. Even doing JABO runs you might get a field down for 10-15 minutes. I agree with krusty on this one. Adding a rail station or supply depot would solve if not enhance the game play. Hell even have it where you can bomb the bridges and slow down the re supply rate that way

[Krusty]

I don't know what kind of FPS hit it would be (doesn't seem to be too much when over mega-strats, right?) but what about just making them all over the place? They would represent a major bombing portion of the war. Wherever we used to have a zone base, put in a zone strat. That would be probably a half dozen per side.

The retreating strat doesn't work well IMO. It's too far in, and a single base makes it jump 200 miles backward. Then it never comes forward. I doubt the war ever gets close enough to these strats in the first place. Most of the time it's secret NOE raids or off-peak missions to sneak/steal a base behind enemy lines. Perhaps tie in a qualifier, where a field around a strat (any field that would make it jump backwards) will not be captured, or will revert after X hours, if there is no other friendly base around it. That means the strat would only "retreat" if the entire enemy frontline was encroaching on it, not just a single base steal behind enemy lines.

That's hardly the same thing as the front lines encroaching onto the strat.

I think HTC was optomistic about how much action the LWAs get. With the big maps in rotation there's little chance that half of one team's continent is that badly over-run. Most times I see it, even when being slammed by other sides, most countries retain their core but lose their flanks. Of course, it all depends on what map, specifically.

I'd like to see them more common, more accessible. On the one hand I would like them to be tied into every-day missions, a focal point for gameplay. That means making them worth the effort either in points or in gameplay effect (i.e. slowing down field resupply or whatever). On the other hand I don't want to see them simply become milkrunning resources. Definitely, there is a balance to be struck.

I'm not *overly* concerned that these will become milk-run targets because of the massive amounts of flak towers. A single formation of bombers has a small chance to get out unscathed. Milk runners who remember porking old strats will find themselves dead over the new ones. I'd be curious what it would be like if these megastrats were sprinkled all over the map.

[Jayhawk]

I was also thinking about the effect of multiple strat cities, more value in the targets but not an overwhelming impact as to cripple the entire country.  Similar to zone systems I suppose, we'd just have 2-3 zones each with their own city strat.

Might be a good way to incorporate larger ground and naval convoys that operate between cities.

Now I'm just thinking out loud (then typing it down  ) but there could be two or three zone strat cities, and a 'capital' at the rear near the uncapturable bases and HQ.  Resupply of strat cities are connected to all other strats via roads and waterways.  As enemy advances, city would be abandoned and the resupply to bases in that zone would be handled by the capital.