Author Topic: FW190 F8, External Loadout's (Read 5381 times)

Raubvogel · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2001, 03:02:00 AM »

I've done the research RA. Just to please you I will dig my books out and post it again.

One inconclusive excerpt from one source isn't a very concrete argument.

<edit>Dug for about five minutes and found this on Joe Baugher's site. I will check out the sources he cites tomorrow:

Quote

In December 1944, the highly efficient missile Panzerblitz 1 (Pb 1) system consisting of six and, more often, eight R4M air-to-air missiles. They were adapted for tank destroying by mounting an 80 mm M8 type warhead for an armor penetration of up to 90 mm. Using the Pb 1 unit it was possible to destroy tanks at a 200 m distance. The only limitation was a maximum speed of 490 km/hr, not to be exceeded during missile firing (in a salvo of eight or in pairs). Up to February 1945 the Luftwaffe received 115 Fw 190F-8/Pb 1 planes.

Sources:Warplanes of the Third Reich, William Green, Doubleday, 1971.
Famous Fighters of the Second World War, William Green, Doubleday 1967.
The Focke-Wulf 190--A Famous German Fighter, Heinz Nowarra, Harleyford, 1965.

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Raubvogel ]

Glasses · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2001, 05:49:00 AM »

Punt up

fats · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2001, 06:16:00 AM »

Brady,

I am quite certain AH Fw 190 has the Mk 108. The last I played it had no <edit>gondola</edit> options, and that's the only way you could get Mk 103 attached to Fw 190's wing - it's a small plane and Mk 103 is quite big compared to MG 151/20 or Mk 108.

Type:
weight Kg
100 round belt of ammo Kg
length mm
height mm
width mm

MG 151/20:
42 Kg
19.9 Kg
1767 mm
195 mm
190 mm

Mk 108:
88 Kg
59.5 Kg
1057 mm
216 mm
222 mm

Mk 103:
145 Kg
92 Kg
2316mm
348mm
284mm

Have you seen some numbers of flights made with what kind of armament for Fw 190, or where do you know that R2 and R12 were often used? IS R2 inside the wing structure as well. I don't think I have seen any photos of Mk 108 gondolas.

// fats

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: fats ]

ra · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2001, 11:41:00 AM »

I could scan some pictures I have of 190's with various underwing gondolas including the Mk103, and e-mail them for someone else to post.

ra

brady · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2001, 07:13:00 PM »

ra u can Email me at bradys5@hotmail.com and i will upload team to my site and post away

fats you are right it is the 30mm MK 108 on the A8 I just kept thinking it was the MK 103 for some strange reasion,I even asked my squadies on rw last knight as I was posting to be shure they thought it was the MK 103 as well

i am aware of the size difference between the 2 I just thought that those big barels on the outer wings was some kinda bad artwork, they were to long to be MK 108's so I assumed the were gondals for the MK 103. Their is a museum near hear that has a MK 103 in it I was allowed to drag it out a photograph it, the man helping me and I had a heck of a time moving it the freaking thing is HUGE.

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: brady ]

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: brady ]

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: brady ]

Urchin · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2001, 12:06:00 AM »

Was checking out a few sites about various WW2 planes... the 190A8 was modified in the field to carry a total of 6 20mm Mg151/20s, and 2 13mm MGs. Holy cow that'd be a buttload of firepower.

I looked, but I can't remember if I saw a loadout of 4x30mm cannon for the A8, but I know I DID see 4x20mm + 2x30mm (with the 30mm in gondolas).

HoHun · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2001, 12:47:00 AM »

Hi,

there seems to be some confusion about the possible cannon configurations of the Focke-Wulf Fw 190A-8.

Basically, these were:

Standard: 2x MG131 in nose, 2x MG151/20 in wing roots, 2x MG151/20 in outer wings.

Common: 2x MK108 replacing MG151/20 in outer wings.

Rare: 4x MG151/20 in twin gondolas replacing MG151/20 in outer wings.

Experimental: 2x MK103 in gondolas beneath the wings replacing MG151/20 in outer wings.

By the way, "Rüstsätze" were not "field conversion kits" - the literal translation is "equipment sets". Though these could be applied by the Luftwaffe's maintenance personnel, many aircraft actually came off the factory lines with Rüstsatz applied.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Urchin · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2001, 01:34:00 AM »

Yea, but even if we could show numbers as to how many were equipped with 6 20mm or 2 20mm and 4 30mm, we'd never get em into the game. That is just to much firepower, even though I'm figureatively drooling just thinking about it <drool> <drool>

Seeker · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2001, 02:04:00 AM »

Was there more than one version of the A8, or can some one explain LW nomenclature?

This thread got me digging through my books, and while I can find most, if not all of the weapons mentioned, the model numbers seem to be different, for example:

"190-A8/R1 to R6 were again similar to the A6/R1 to R6, but the A8/R7 for use by the newly established Sturm Gruppen had a specialy armoured cockpit. the A-8/R6 was similar, but had the same armament as the A-8/R2, and the A-8/R11 was an all weather fighter with PKS 12 radio navigation equipment, heated cockpit windows and FuG 125 Hermine radio equipment. The Fw 190 A-8/R12 was similar, but had MK 108 cannon in the outboard wing positions."

Were there so many "A-8's"?. Which one do we have? Do you gius want one definitive A-8, or a never-never hybrid like the AH Spit IX?

Urchin · « **Reply #24 on:** October 31, 2001, 02:20:00 AM »

As far as I can tell, and I am by no means an expert, there was one "190A8".

This 190A8 differed from the 190A5 primarily in that it was heavier and had Mg151/20s outboard instead of the MG/FF's. However, there were a number of 'kits', for lack of a better word, that were mounted on the 190a8. We have one such 'kit', which was replacing the outboard 151/20's with 30mm Mk108 cannons. We are allowed to select between have 4 20mm or 2 20mm and 2 30mm cannon.

Another such kit was the removal of the outboard 151/20's, which were then replaced by an underwing gondola (like the ones we can mount on the 109) that had 2 151/20's in it. That would boost the total of 20mm cannon to 6 (2 inboard, 4 underwing).

Yet another such kit was the addition of underwing gondolas consisting of 1 Mk108 30mm cannon. In this case the 4 Mg151/20's seem to have been kept, although I'm not sure.

I, personally, am not asking for some "never-never land" loadout. The packages existed, and in some case the planes came from the factory like that. I just think it would be neat to be able to change the loadout of the A8, and add a little more variety to it. It is already an inferior plane in the MA, giving it more firepower would not change that. The only plane that I feel is even MORE inferior than the 190A8 is the 190F8. It is quite easily the most useless "Jabo" plane. I bring a 190A8 instead, the extra 2 cannons pack more punch against buildings than the little bitty 50kg bombs do.

csThor · « **Reply #25 on:** October 31, 2001, 06:28:00 AM »

There was only one basic A8, but it could fulfill many roles due to the widespread possibilities of configuration. The majority of the Rüstsätze were already factory mounted, while many Umrüstsätze could still be applied by the field maintanence (sp?) crews. But don´ttake that as a general rule! Both - the R and U sets - ment either a special weapon configuration, a different engine component or different radio equipment.

Some things I found, but I cannot say i pretend they are true:

A8/R1 - bomber destroyer with 2x double MG151/20 in gondolas under outer wings (abandoned soon)

A8/R2 - bomber destroyer with 2x Mk108 in outer wings

A8/R3 - bomber destroyer with 2x Mk103 in gondolas under the wings (abandoned soon)

A8/R4 - use of GM-1 system and lighter structure for high-alt recon (Jagdaufklärer)(abandoned soon)

A8/R5 - additional 115 liter tank in aft fuselage either for use of MW50 or as fuel tank

A8/R6 - bomber destroyer with 2x WfGr 21 under the wings

A8/R7 - 2x Mk 108 in the outer wings, additional armor for pilot, engine and 30mm ammo (Sturmbock)

A8/R8 - 2x Mk 108 in gondolas under the rings (additional to the equipment of the Sturmbock variant)

A8/R11 - nightfighter with Patin PKS 12S compass and FuG 125 "Hermine" or FuG 218 "Neptune" J3 radar, 2x Mk108 in outer wings

A8/R12 - as R11 but with 20mm Mg151/20 instead of the Mk108

A8/U1 - to-seated training plane (later renamed as Fw190 S which became a different version)

A8/U3 - upper component of a Mistel 2

A8/U11 - Torpedobomber with Ltf 905 torpedo

There are surely many more and I am not sure if those are correct, but the whole topic is indeed a bit difficult.

[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: csThor ]

janjan · « **Reply #26 on:** October 31, 2001, 07:21:00 AM »

Slightly off topic, but what is Ta152 30mm? Somehow I've get the impression of the Mk 103 on it?

Raubvogel · « **Reply #27 on:** October 31, 2001, 08:52:00 AM »

It's a Mk108 janjan.

fats · « **Reply #28 on:** October 31, 2001, 10:13:00 AM »

The C-1 was to have Mk 103

// fats

HoHun · « **Reply #29 on:** October 31, 2001, 03:38:00 PM »

Hi Seeker,

>Do you gius want one definitive A-8, or a never-never hybrid like the AH Spit IX?

Unlike the Allies, who produced a wide variety of fighter aircraft, the Luftwaffe standardized on just 2 single-seat fighter types - the Me 109 and the Fw 190.

The configuration of these aircraft was however highly variable so that they could be adapted for their intended role as required.

The ability to adapt was historical, so Aces High should (in the long term) portray this ability. That may result in players flying configurations that historically weren't used, but as long as these are based on realistic options, I wouldn't consider it unrealistic.

After all, trying to pick any Fw 190A-8 variant as "definite" obviously would be futile - not even the real Luftwaffe managed to do that :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)