Black outs for lack of oxygen

[daddog]

Not a new idea, but it is something that came up when we were talking about FSO setup's.

With a relatively new batch of some early war AC it would be a nice feature to add to our events.

To quote Stoney,

Perhaps that's a setting we can ask HTC for--something where you black out if you're over 14,000 feet for more than 5 minutes or something--to use in those setups (PTO especially) when we know they weren't using oxygen.

[Wiley]

While this might be easier to implement, it would seem to me to be better to have the blackout modeled on the planes that didn't have oxygen.  I mean, since it's on the wishlist and all.

Wiley.

[gyrene81]

That's what he's talking about Wiley...the early war airplanes that didn't have oxygen systems.

[BaldEagl]

Well it certainly would have to be higher than 14,000 feet.  People climb mountains without oxygen masks.  Even I have camped at 9,000 feet and driven a car to around 11,000.

Without looking it up I think the real number is more in the 25-30,000 foot range and it doesn't seem to me like you'd be flying an EW aircraft that high in a scenario.

[EDIT]

I looked it up and I guess I was wrong.  Here's an artical about it:  http://www.c-f-c.com/supportdocs/abo2.htm

The first paragraph:

As the total atmospheric pressure decreases with altitude, the available oxygen pressure decreases in proportion, thus necessitating supplemental oxygen. A lack of sufficient oxygen will bring on hypoxia. Symptoms of hypoxia may begin as low as 5,000 feet with decreased night vision. The retina of the eye is affected by even extremely mild hypoxia. At 8,000 feet, forced concentration, fatigue and headache may occur. At 14,000 feet, forgetfulness, incompetence and indifference makes flying without the proper supplemental oxygen quite hazardous. At 17,000 feet, serious handicap and collapse may occur. These effects do not necessarily occur in the same sequence nor to the same extent in all individuals.

[LLogann]

Sky divers usually use 12k as the deprivation point.  But as your article points out, it has to do with many factors.

Well it certainly would have to be higher than 14,000 feet.  People climb mountains without oxygen masks.  Even I have camped at 9,000 feet and driven a car to around 11,000.

[Wiley]

Hmp.  I could swear I read 'an arena setting' so people would black out above a certain alt...  Insufficient coffee I guess.  Still sounds like a grand idea to me.

Wiley.

[gyrene81]

That is really odd...I lived for years near Steamboat Springs and the hunting/fishing/camping/skiing was routinely 10 to 12,000 feet above sea level...although the lack of oxygen would be a good excuse for some things I did back then, never had any signs of hypoxia even after walking to the top of Pikes Peak. There has to be environmental factors that make the differences.

[guncrasher]

Body gets used to low oxygen but it takes time.



Semp

[Soulyss]

I'd like to see the oxygen system modeled as a subsystem that can be damaged.  Get a hole in your oxygen line and if you're at altitude the pilot would start blacking out or something that would be alleviated by getting down to a lower altitude.  I imagine it could get pretty complex from a modeling/coading perspective in the big bombers with multiple crew stations however.

[Karnak]

Name a WWII aircraft in this game that lacks oxygen?

[Krusty]

Name one that had unlimited oxygen, totally reliable systems, constant heat?

Where's that story of a P-38 pilot trainer hearing 2 students commenting about how a P-38 can't climb, so he says "We're goin climbing and we aren't stopping until you 2 say so" so they climb and climb and climb until they're freezing cold, barely able to speak, and one of them calls it off half frozen to death?


Because pilots can really pull Gs when their muscles are nonfunctional, eh?


To answer, things like the I-16 had none if I recall. Most soviet planes had none. Heck, most soviet planes had cardboard radios that never worked, too!

Then we get WW1 biplanes flying around at 20k which is absurd. These craft definitely had no O2, as well.

I'd like to see something. Blackouts will do, but some sort of time limit (like WEP, nonrechargable, but reloadable on hotpad) where it kicks in at certain alts.

[Ghosth]

I-16  for starters.

[waystin2]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject...So some WW II planes did not have oxygen systems which allowed their pilot to fly above a certain altitude?   
If yes, there should be a detrimental effect on those planes when flown above certain altitudes.

[gyrene81]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject...So some WW II planes did not have oxygen systems which allowed their pilot to fly above a certain altitude?   
If yes, there should be a detrimental effect on those planes when flown above certain altitudes.

You have to dig deep for the information but yes...many early war aircraft didn't have oxygen systems and some mid-late war didn't as well. I'm not totally positive but, I don't believe the I-16, Brewster, A6M2, D3A1, 109E4, P-40B, IL2, LA5, F4F4, FM2 and a couple of others had oxygen systems...or reliable oxygen systems that allowed extended flight times above 15000 feet. Have to dig around to find out exactly which aircraft.

[daddog]

Well ideally it would be modeled as Soulyss suggested. A system that could be damaged so even those that have oxygen could find themselves limited by lack of oxygen. Having climbed some smaller Mts. over 14k without oxygen you guys are right, they would not be passing out. In defense of Stoney, he was just using that as an example, we all understood what point he was trying to make. Using the same back out graphic might not work best.

No doubt a pilots performance would diminish above 20k for a period of time without oxygen. Maybe couple some kind of graying out or a slight wobble as a warning and or subtract in small increments the responsiveness.

Anyway those smarter than I would have to figure that out, but it would be a fun addition for events except for a few that would cry about it. Most would welcome the new element to events.