Today is the 92nd anniversary of the death of the Red Baron.

[redwing7]

 

[Chalenge]

I thought it was pretty widely accepted now that he was brought down by an Australian ground gunner.

I think a good CSI unit today would find different results if there was any of the physical evidence still in existence. Unfortunately the body was reduced to bones at the time vonR was moved home for reburial (his skull came many years later when it was found by P.J. Carisella). The bullet disappeared at the time of the autopsy (or shortly before) leading to more and more rumors as time went on. We know about where the bullet is but it would be difficult and expensive to retrieve it (not to mention taking possibly many years to accomplish). Its not worth knowing that much.

[Chalenge]

It was true Kismet when I met "Anna", the von Richthofen family gardner in Schweidnitz, on a flight from Frankfurt to Chicago (O'Hare) in April of 1979.  It was one of the most intrigueing conversation I have ever been lucky to have.

Schweidnitz today is called Wroclaw (Poland). It must have been fascinating to hear how she escaped from behind the iron curtain (which didnt fall until 1990).

[SirFrancis]

We know about where the bullet is but it would be difficult and expensive to retrieve it [...]

 

please explain. Is that a quote or do you (!) mean you know where the bullet is, regarding to "we"???

[Ack-Ack]

I thought it was pretty widely accepted now that he was brought down by an Australian ground gunner.

Just last night History Channel replayed the Unsolved History episode about the death of the Red Baron.  It's sad that the Australian gunner that is now believed to be the one that shot down the Red Baron died a penniless drifter in 1925 without knowing his place in history.


ack-ack

[Wmaker]

Yep, it's pretty hard for anyone in a plane to have been the shooter because of several reasons.

Mr.Brown certainly didn't have any problems in claiming the fame of it though...

I was in a perfect position above and behind. ... neither plane, (Richthofen or May) was aware of me ... I had dived until the red snout of my Camel pointed fair at his tail. My thumbs pressed the triggers. Bullets ripped into his elevator and tail planes. The flaming tracers showed me where they hit. A little short! Gently I pulled back on the stick. The nose of the Camel rose ever so slightly. Easy now, easy. The stream of bullets tore along the body of the all-red tripe. Its occupant turned and looked back. I had a flash of his eyes behind the goggles. Then he crumpled - sagged In the cockpit ... Richthofen was dead. The triplane staggered, wobbled, stalled, flung over on its nose and went down. The reserve trenches of the Australian infantry was (sic) not more than 200 feet below. It was a quick descent. May saw it. I saw it as I swung over. And Mellersh saw it.
http://www.indysquadron.com/id112.html

[Chalenge]

please explain. Is that a quote or do you (!) mean you know where the bullet is, regarding to "we"???

P.J. Carisella did the research and found the man (McCarty) from Australia that confessed to having the bullet (he was an orderly at the autopsy of the Baron). McCarty took the bullet while souvenir hunting on the body. The bullet had emerged from the body just below the left nipple and hit the Barons wallet but did not pass through or into the wallet. The bullet was damaged (bent) and there was very little blood present. Now this was the interview of McCarty many years after the Baron died and was conducted by another Australian gunner from the same unit.

McCarty cleaned out his home of all 'ancient' records following the death of his mother and burned records and souvenirs (including the bullet) from the war in a rubbage heap behind his home. I would think it would still be possible to retrieve that bullet but only if there has not been substantial construction on the site.

[saggs]

I was in a perfect position above and behind. ... neither plane, (Richthofen or May) was aware of me ... I had dived until the red snout of my Camel pointed fair at his tail. My thumbs pressed the triggers. Bullets ripped into his elevator and tail planes. The flaming tracers showed me where they hit. A little short! Gently I pulled back on the stick. The nose of the Camel rose ever so slightly. Easy now, easy. The stream of bullets tore along the body of the all-red tripe. Its occupant turned and looked back. I had a flash of his eyes behind the goggles. Then he crumpled - sagged In the cockpit ... Richthofen was dead. The triplane staggered, wobbled, stalled, flung over on its nose and went down. The reserve trenches of the Australian infantry was (sic) not more than 200 feet below. It was a quick descent. May saw it. I saw it as I swung over. And Mellersh saw it.
http://www.indysquadron.com/id112.html

Sheesh , what a picktard 

[Chalenge]

Just last night History Channel replayed the Unsolved History episode about the death of the Red Baron.  It's sad that the Australian gunner that is now believed to be the one that shot down the Red Baron died a penniless driver in 1925 without knowing his place in history.

They got it wrong of course. According to the most likely scenario (offered up in 'perfect' forensic scenario) it was Gunr. Popkin that actually killed the Baron. Popkin said many times he didnt care who it was that actually killed the Baron but that it was only important that the 'Hun' that was killing 'our boys' was dead (paraphrased). All of the gunners thought it was cheeky of Brown to have claimed the kill and Brown himself at the time said it was his superiors that insisted he do so.

From the angles offered in all the diagrams I have seen of the gunner positions and the flight path of the Baron... none of them could have fired a shot that came from the lower right quadrant and passed a bullet through the back and chest of the Baron. However after the crash of the Tripe several riflemen had the opportunity and to any of them it would have been 'just another German.' I believe this has remained a mystery only because it was wished to be a mystery at the time.

[Chalenge]

Sheesh , what a picktard 

Tabloid type jornalism by a writer and not an interview of Brown himself. Brown never said this.

[Wmaker]

Tabloid type jornalism by a writer and not an interview of Brown himself. Brown never said this.

Please elaborate?

It could well be just words put into his mouth but I'd like to know how you are so certain about it?

From Wikipedia:
Brown himself never spoke much about what happened that day, claiming "There is no point in me commenting, as the evidence is already out there".

So it could well be that that describtion is work of a "journalist". Anyway. It's pretty clear that it must have been pretty clear for Brown that he wasn't the shooter but he certainly didn't make huge effort to set people straight...

[Chalenge]

I am certain about it because those words come from an action publication that was commisioned without Browns knowledge or permission.

[Wmaker]

I am certain about it because those words come from an action publication that was commisioned without Browns knowledge or permission.

Ok, in other words you aren't certain.

[Chalenge]

What part of 'I am certain' do you not understand? Carisella spoke to Brown about that very quote and he said he never gave it.

[gyrene81]

What part of 'I am certain' do you not understand? Carisella spoke to Brown about that very quote and he said he never gave it.

Not to be an a-hole but...Clinton & Lewinsky...Iraq and WMDs...depends on who you believe.