Congrats to Allied designers and German Pilots

[Pongo]

AH must be seen as an increadable accolade to the Allied aircraft designers in WWII.
In 1942 by the mere expediant of adding a bigger engine to their 7 year old design they created the only plane they would ever need to win the war. On the other side of the atlantic a small US firm in 100 days designed from scratch a plane that with the jury rigged addition of an entirly different engine would prove flawless as an air dominance fighter.
On the other side of the channel the Germans with mostly inferior(190) and vastly inferior(109) managed to with 2 wings of fighters maintain air parity against the armada of these supperior planes. The RAF had how many wings of fighters to raid accross the channel with? Certainly there where more Canadian fighter pilots on the channel front in 43 then German. Forget the rest of the allied aramda.

I have always known that the Spit IX and the P51 where "War Wining" designs but certainly the German planes had to be better then this.

[fd ski]

 

managed to with 2 wings of fighters maintain air parity

Are you refering to two 109's strafing the beach on D-day ?

How did that saying go ?
If it's green - it's RAF
if it's silver - it's USSAF
if you can't see it - it's LW..

Don't kid yourself - day barbarosa started was the day that air partity in europe ended..



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Bartlomiej Rajewski
S/L fd-ski Sq. 303 (Polish) "Kosciuszko" RAF
   www.raf303.org  

[Pongo]

Really so RAF had air superiority in NW Europe from summer 41... Never heard that position stated before. I know that they had established dominance over The British Islands, but even the Channel was still hotly contested in late 42 to mid 43, little own the bulk of western Europe.  Air Supremecy existed for all of France and much of western Germany by DDay of course, it was a requirment of invasion. But Barbarosa to Overlord is nearly 3 years. And during that time the RAF + attachments and for much of it the USAAF where opposed I believe by 2 understrength wings of fighters. JG26 and JG2
With (according to AH) inferior fighters.

I guess they only engaged from very favorable conditions.

[Minotaur]

Pongo;

I thought the HQ for HTC was in USA Texas.  Is this correct?

Do you believe that HTC is de-flating the quality of Axis planes purposely?  Or in-flating the quality of Allied planes?

Are you mad because you have recently lost a dogfight flying an Axis plane vs an Allied plane?

What is your piont?

Mino

[chisel]

That would be 2 190's FD-ski  

Pongo what makes you say the 109/190 in AH is inferior?

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Jumpin Jesus on a pogo stick! Everybody knows a burrow owl... lives... in a hole... in the ground!

[Pongo]

Minotaur,
My most frustrating fights have been FW-FW. The biggest thrashing I recieved was from a niki. But I understand that I sound mad. I would say it is more like curios.
I only have my AH experiance in the the two merlin boys and the two LW planes to compare.
I find the Allied planes to surrender nothing in performance but to handle in a much more useful way.
After many flights in the FW I am still amazed at why it enters stalls some times. I dont worry about that nearly so much with the allied planes. Even though I have much less allied plane flight time I can predict the success of a manuever far better with the allied planes. Maybe I have the trim set wrong. I allways return to even trim for all 3 controls before engageing. Maybe that works better for the Allied planes..
 

 

[funked]

It's a beta!

Pongo don't forget that even during the onslaught of Q1/Q2 1944, the Luftwaffe still maintained about 1:1 k/d.  Fortunately the Allies were able to win the war of attrition.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 12-03-1999).]

[Pongo]

My point is that that 1-1 ratio is increadable when the advantages of the allied planes is taken into account.
I had allways assumed that it was quality verses quantity. But it was evidently Quality and Quantity verses extreme pilot skill.
I am accepting the AH models as accurate here...just drawing some historical conclusions from them.
In order for the air war to take the path it did with these AC the german pilots would have had to be extrodinary. and not just a few of them.

[val]

The US decided the outcome of the 2 World Wars, not by building better machines (though some were) but by overrunning the enemy with men and equipment. The continental United States has never had to fight off an invading army, or see its industrial complexes routinely bombed.

If you look at the entire timeline of WWII the Axis powers were not matched or pushed back until the US had geared up its industrial might and sent masses of troops and equipment into combat.

I am not saying that the US fought harder or better than the other allied nations. They just had more resources to commit to the effort, and numbers decide more battles than skill.

val

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Scott (val) Valline
Dweebs of Death

[Minotaur]

Pongo;

cc Thanks  

Another "Line of Thought" for you to consider, that is often overlooked.  Inferior planes can win, if superior tactics are imployed.  I really think that we get caught up too much with plane vs plane in Simulations.  For tactics I mean wing and squad tactics, not 1 vs 1.

As an example, the Finnish Air Force of WW2 generally had planes that were not superior to those that they fought against.  The FAF however; was very successful.  

Mino

[Razz]

Yeah, and look at the polish airforce and what they did.  Oh wait, on second thought dont do that. Hey how bout that FAF

[fd ski]

Ignorance is a bliss eh razz ?

Read this
 http://ornak.waw.pdi.net/~robertp/aviation.html  

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Bartlomiej Rajewski
S/L fd-ski Sq. 303 (Polish) "Kosciuszko" RAF
   www.raf303.org  

[This message has been edited by fd ski (edited 12-04-1999).]

[Razz]

LOL..it was a joke, i know the Poles kicked bellybutton in the Battle of Britain and there after.  I was however pointing out that they did not do so hot in the battle of Poland.  But then again they had alot of left over ww1 planes.  anyhoo, hurray for Poland and their airforce..ok feel better?

[Birdo]

Its ok, we all know the Poles suck

[-ik-]

hey guys, a fighter wing is a JG.

Pongo was referring to JG 26 and JG 2, those were the two squads that did tow the line on the western front for years. And he's right that it is amazing that they held parity for as long as they did against such superior numbers...

roflmao razz  

[This message has been edited by -ik- (edited 12-05-1999).]