Author Topic: Tail Dragger  (Read 8948 times)

Offline RTR

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #75 on: April 27, 2010, 06:41:25 PM »
The Dumb is strong in this thread. :aok

RTR
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Offline RipChord929

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #76 on: April 27, 2010, 07:04:38 PM »
Do you not see any similarities between the danger of racing around other people without mechanical and proficiency checks and the same for aircraft?

Now that is a rhetorical Question, because I already anwered it.. But I will again... Answer, SOMETIMES!

The prob with the AMA, is that as soon as they become a tracks sanctioning body, they roll in with all the draconian rules of a national event.. Alot of ppl just stop racing, no racers, no entry fees, no ppl in the stands, no gate $, not good for the owners!
So they go outlaw, relax the rules, and the racers come back, so do the spectators, so does the $, go figure...

RC
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Offline Toad

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #77 on: April 27, 2010, 07:20:25 PM »
Aviation has its own way of dealing with those who are over-confident and under-trained.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 10:14:17 PM by Toad »
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Offline Xtrepid

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #78 on: April 27, 2010, 07:34:59 PM »
I met this guy named Conrad the other day. We are working a deal for his Jeep. He tells me that he recently traded his 2007 Harley Davidson for a tail dragger plane. I have no idea what model this plane is but it looks real cool.

Conrad tells me he tried  to take off in a field next to his house, he said he got two feet off the ground when his left wing clipped the ground and he came down flipping the plane over and busting his prop.

You wondering why I posted all this right??????

Conrad was in the 82nd Airbourne. He served two tours over in the sand box in 2003 and 2004. The only flight experience he has and I am not kidding here........

is playing MS Combat Simulator.


After he gets a new 60" prop he said he will try again. I plan on filming this take off for him. If he wrecks and lives, I may be able to make 10 grand off of america's funniest home video's, if he wrecks and doesn't make it I will sell the footage to the news people Ha Ha :rofl
Todd

I think the previous owner got the better deal in the trade.

And, after the crash and burn, and your profits of the video, you'll get a great deal too... on the Jeep! :rolleyes:

X :salute

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Offline Cougar68

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #79 on: April 27, 2010, 08:13:44 PM »
Now that is a rhetorical Question, because I already anwered it.. But I will again... Answer, SOMETIMES!

The prob with the AMA, is that as soon as they become a tracks sanctioning body, they roll in with all the draconian rules of a national event.. Alot of ppl just stop racing, no racers, no entry fees, no ppl in the stands, no gate $, not good for the owners!
So they go outlaw, relax the rules, and the racers come back, so do the spectators, so does the $, go figure...

RC

I think we're missing each other here.  I'm not wanting this guy, or anyone in his situation, to get some help so the FAA is happy.  I just don't want to see anyone killed behind the controls of an airplane when it's avoidable.  I would imagine you feel the same way about your fellow racers. 

Offline Denholm

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #80 on: April 27, 2010, 09:40:01 PM »
...What I really like about the idea, is the whole Wright brothers deal.. Nut and Bolts, backyard testing, and then actually flying the thing, with no formal training, virgin experience.. That would be awesome, and worth the risk!!!
Training came in the form of hundreds of controlled gliding test-flights. Before each flight, a limit was set on distance and altitude. As far as I'm aware, they never exceeded limits agreed upon before a test flight. The Wright brothers had an opportunity to fly a heavier-than-air powered airplane two years before their historical flight. However, they opted to learn essential skills with their gliding experiments before seeking powered flight. Astonishingly, the Wright Brothers did this knowing their competition was right on their tail. They were not stupid.

As for their powered flight, it was only a few feet off the ground, traveling a few hundred yards, while takeoff was controlled by a guide-rail. They also had hundreds of gliding flight under their belt assisting their powered-flight endeavor. Ever hear of the term, "training wheels?" In a race of history, the Wright Brothers made a smart decision to fly under highly restricted conditions to ensure safety. They flew in areas away from population where the only risk was to themselves. Even then, they were smart enough to limit their tests to ensure personal safety.

This isn't even remotely similar to what our anxious veteran is doing. He probably doesn't have any conventional-gear experience, he's probably never test-flown an airplane or glider under restricted conditions, and I doubt he ever considered people downwind of his flight path. If he crashes, the effects carry on years past the crash. From emotional trauma of loved-ones, to funeral bills, to insurance bills, to new regulations being placed on pilots because some moron decided he had "the right stuff." Similar to nuclear explosions, results are carried downwind affecting thousands.
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Offline RipChord929

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #81 on: April 27, 2010, 10:50:06 PM »
All true Denholm..  I really admire the pioneers, because they were making it up as they went.. True discovery!

I'd love to get a little taste of that discovery flavor, and thrill.. It can be done succesfully, I have no doubt.. Been done before!

But yeah, I think the guy with the plane may be a little premature, lol.. Bowed to the temptation, went for all the marbles, crashed!

Smashed the plane, Bummer!   Reminds me of the movie, "Wings of Eagles" and Spig Weads first solo flight, lol!

RC
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Offline eagl

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #82 on: April 27, 2010, 11:30:15 PM »
My point Rip, is that you simply cannot compare a motorcycle or a car to flying an airplane. Not under any circumstances.

I agree.  I've tried to teach a number of students who were competent drivers (both cars and motorcycles) and they were incapable of learning how to fly.  Yea some of them soloed but anything beyond merely driving around the traffic pattern was beyond them.

For someone with the basic abilities required to be a pilot, driving a motorcycle is good exercise and a way to keep the reflexes sharp, but adding the third dimension to the game requires additional abilities that many otherwise talented people simply do not have.

As for the guy in the original post, I also think the plane looks like a mini-max, which can be outfitted as an ultralight if it is built carefully with the right components.  It is also a great way for an untrained pedestrian to become a very dead wanna-be pilot.
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Offline BiPoLaR

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #83 on: April 27, 2010, 11:44:33 PM »
That guy has broken a few laws there Todd. Not to mention a few brain cells.

I doubt the plane is registered and probably has no insurance.

He is in for a world of hurt and hopefully doesn't hurt anybody but himself.. he has done alot more damage than just "busting the prop".

I would advise you to steer clear of this idiot and give your local constabulary a call.

RTR
LMFAO are you serious? Life is about fun and risks. Snitching is for punk sissies. Lighten up a bit geez
I'd do it, but im goofy like that and dont mind a few broken bones.
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Offline BiPoLaR

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #84 on: April 27, 2010, 11:51:51 PM »
The Dumb is strong in this thread. :aok

RTR
So is the girly sissy types  :aok
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Offline Yossarian

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #85 on: April 28, 2010, 01:14:10 AM »
LMFAO are you serious? Life is about fun and risks. Snitching is for punk sissies. Lighten up a bit geez
I'd do it, but im goofy like that and dont mind a few broken bones.

Do you include the neck as a bone?
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Offline RTR

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #86 on: April 28, 2010, 01:23:49 AM »
LOL Bipolar, come back when you are your other, more sane and controlled bad self.

RTR
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Offline RTR

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #87 on: April 28, 2010, 01:25:06 AM »
LOL Bipolar, come back when you are your other, more sane and controlled bad self.

I've been doing this stuff for 30 years now... I will call a spade a spade.

RTR
The Damned

Offline Plawranc

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #88 on: April 28, 2010, 02:13:41 AM »
hey If I had a bigger motor and I was certain of the planes construction

I would try lol.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Tail Dragger
« Reply #89 on: April 28, 2010, 02:55:24 AM »
I will point out one VERY clear and distinguishing point:

This thread is about FLYING AN AIRCRAFT. Every single person who has come into this thread and HAS flown a plane, and IS at LEAST a licensed pilot, has said this is unsafe and foolish behavior. The ONLY people who say this is a fun, great idea, are the people who have never been there.

A little example of how things can go very badly. I recently "earned" my wings. That is to say, after having my license and having flown for years, I underwent that singular experience in which you discover whether or not you have what it takes to become a pilot.

My background: I am a licensed pilot. I have flown everything from Gliders, to Helicopters, to single engine prop planes, and have formal training for IFR flight using a full-motion US Navy P-3 simulator. My specialties however lie in gliders and light prop aircraft. I started flying when I was 13, and have received formal training from private instructors in gliders, a US Navy instructor in the P-3 Sim, and both Embry Riddle and USAF instructors in Cessnas. After all this training, I am no expert, but I am leaps and bounds ahead of this guy.

I was recently flying my own personal aircraft, a small single engine aircraft that straddles the line between Single Engine Power and Light Sport, on a perfectly clear, calm day. I took off from my home field at Dillingham Airfield, made the 30 minute flight to Honolulu International Airport with my father in the right seat. I followed all of my check-lists, and made a text-book approach as per my training. On the turn from base to final, at about 600ft AGL and midway through my bank, the nose started to drop, and the plane began to roll into the turn. No big deal, just a small gust of wind. I went to make a slight correction on the stick, and found the stick would not move. The nose got lower, and I was headed at the ground while banked. Rudders responded fine, but the stick had absolutely no motion in any direction. Long story short, after a few miliseconds of panic, I collected my wits about me and evaluated the situation. Finally, I realized my father's sunglasses had fallen, and wedged into the well the stick rests in on his side of the aircraft. Well, once the stick was cleared I had a new problem. I was just a hundred feet or so off the ground, with far too much speed due to my dive, and constrained to land on that pass, with traffic running parallel to me on 4R, and traffic at an angle to me on 8L. Whats more, I had to land and hold short before the intersection with 8L in an aircraft notorious for floating. So, with little altitude, WAY too much speed, and not nearly as much runway space to land as I would have liked, I had to use every trick in the book, and fly that fuzzy line between control and stall, in order to shed enough speed to get my gear on the ground. Brakes squeezed, I rolled to a stop mere feet from the Hold Short line at the intersection with 8R, out of breath, shaken, and not anxious to get into the air again.

My point? Even with all the formal instruction I can get, with more experience than most private pilots in a wider variety of aircraft and flying conditions, I still straddled the line between life and death so very nearly I actually thanked a god I didn't believe in when I got both feet on solid ground. And this all happened due to a minor issue with a pair of sunglasses. If I had not had a formal instruction teaching me TECHNIQUES such as crabbing and cross control, if I had not had someone there to monitor the stick during practice with incipient stalls, slow speed flight, and short field landings, I may have suffered a runway incursion, simply crashed before landing, or even worse, caused a collision with the commercial jet on 8R.

There is a LOT more to go wrong in aviation than most people, pilots included, tend to take into account. This is an over-simplification, but I have learned one thing when it comes to flying: Flying from point A to point B can be done by a trained monkey. But when something goes wrong, it goes wrong faster, and farther, than in any other situation in the world. Without formal instruction, this man may well be dead the first time a gust of wind catches him on final approach. God forbid he should have succeeded enough times previously to have found it a good idea to take someone else up with him...

Also, since we like to reference the Wright Brothers a lot here, yes, they survived and excelled. Do you have the statistics for how many before and after them DIDN'T?

(For anyone interested in a little evidence of my story, my father happened to be video taping the approach. While the recovery and landing were cut off, you can see the first few seconds of the control lock, and hear me recognize the issue with the glasses via this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17RqlhH72gc)