Author Topic: You 109 pilots.  (Read 1994 times)

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17360
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2010, 11:37:43 PM »
I learn to fite the 109 by flying against agent.  think he's the best in it follow him around watch him.


Semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline BiPoLaR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4132
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2010, 11:47:25 PM »
I learn to fite the 109 by flying against agent.  think he's the best in it follow him around watch him.


Semp
So you auger a lot?  :noid :rofl
R.I.P. T.E.Moore (Dad) 9-9-45 - 7-16-10.
R.I.P. Wes Poss  (Best Friend) 11-14-75 - 5-2-14

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17360
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2010, 11:54:17 PM »
To be honest if he's around I kindda stay away from 109's.  Otherwise they're fun to fly against same as niki's. 
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Ardy123

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3417
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2010, 02:59:27 AM »
So you auger a lot?  :noid :rofl
lol Agent is the king of auger and maybe I'm the duke, well as warhed says, I'm auger123 ;)...

your not flying aggressively enough if you don't auger from time to time... you have unlimited lives, so push that baby to the limit! :rock

by the way, who wants to join my auger league? 10 points for the kill shot and auger move ;)

by the way polar, no more 'I like turtles' in your avatar... shame.. the turtles are pissed.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 03:05:09 AM by Ardy123 »
Yeah, that's right, you just got your rear handed to you by a fuggly puppet!
==Army of Muppets==
(Bunnies)

Offline JB11

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 248
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2010, 11:58:57 AM »
LOL!

 :salute 11
Never abandon the possibility of attack. Attack even from a position of inferiority, to disrupt the enemy's plans. This often results in improving one's own position. - General Adolf Galland, Luftwaffe
Proverbs 3:5,6

Offline Saurdaukar

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8610
      • Army of Muppets
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2010, 12:24:03 PM »
I really hate to break up the party but there is a certain Pee-38 driver who is already chair of the Auger Club.

Might want to check with him first to avoid any legal unpleasantness.

Offline PJ_Godzilla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2010, 12:53:51 PM »
I'll offer what little I know and what less I can execute. I'm still slightly unfavorable k/d in this bird but love the F and G's (all - but especially the g-14 with the Erla Haube hood and the 14 and 6 with the improved 6 view) for their nice balance of climb, turn, accel, and air-to-air weapons loads.

The 109 has a great climb rate and wicked compressibility issues on the way down at near-500. Manual trim can save you on the pullout. Offensively, it's best to spiral down onto someone's 6 or crossing from above. You can follow and kill or snapshot this way. Roll rate is NOT great like in the 190 but still is good enough, provided you keep your speed reasonable, you can vector fire onto a turnbird from above. Indeed, using this practice, you might as well take the gondos - just don't lose the E advantage because the gondos mean compromised climb and turn.

Speaking of climb and turn, most of the American birds can be easily outclimbed, dependent on initial e-state. The Spit, however, is a real danger in rope attempts. Also, it pays to have a good reversal if you go roping. That's why I don't do it that much - my "torque bunt" still requires a lot of attention. Flat-turning, at least without gondos, is pretty good to the left.

One evasive tactic I've used, with some success: the climbing spiral (with flaps) on the verge of stall. It bleeds your opponent, should he try to follow, of energy that he will not recover as easily as you do in your 109.

Btw,  I like the 20's. Grizz is not a mere human, nor are the other 109 taterjocks. I can't hit stuff with that loopy 30 - except for bombers. There is little more beautiful than seeing a single or double tap relieve a bomber of its wing. Generally, though, I'll take the gondos, dive in a slicing attack and kick rudder a bit at 600-400 yards. It is often possible to bring down more than one bomber on a pass in this way.

The 109 doesn't take damage all that well, though, notably, the engine will run oiled long enough to get you back to base. Range is weak, also, but that hardly matters here. Speed is good in the late model 109s and usually offers the opportunity to run or catch.

All in all, I call it my aspirational bird. It's nowhere as easy as, for example, the Spit VIII, but offers, for some reason, more reward and, ultimately, I think, more low-speed craziness to explore (like the reversal or climbing at 100mph on thr edge of stall). That's my student's eval - there are certainly better 109 pilots out there than I but I feel a natural affinity for it that I don't get in anything else.   
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Ardy123

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3417
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2010, 01:09:45 PM »
Very good write up PJ.
I would add, try the following 'exercises' off line to get the feel for it. Unlike the P51, the 109, due to its slats, is still very controllable while it buffets on the edge of a stall. Also, using a little rudder you can 'wing walk' it, to get that last little bit of turn out of it, by using the rudder to prevent a wing tip drop and stall.

So, the exercises..

1)take the plane up to 10k, and drop to full flaps, and go into a flat turn and hold it for as long as you can. Pull back as hard as you can while still not stalling. Let it shake like crazy, do what ever it takes but keep it turning. Keep practicing this until you can hold it forever turning and turning while it shakes like crazy.

2) Practice doing steep barrel rolls when your airspeed is under 130 mph, with your flaps out. Get used to being able to pull the plane into the vert, even as its shaking like crazy.

3) Fly through the hangers, and after each pass, bring the nose up until its at a 90 degree angle. Then hold it there for as long as possible. HINT, back off the throttle and give some rudder once the airspeed becomes slow. Once the plane finally pitches over, dive down and go through the hanger again and repeat.

As boring as it may sound, it will quickly give you the 'feel' of the 109.
Yeah, that's right, you just got your rear handed to you by a fuggly puppet!
==Army of Muppets==
(Bunnies)

Offline PJ_Godzilla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2010, 01:25:37 PM »
Very good write up PJ.
I would add, try the following 'exercises' off line to get the feel for it. Unlike the P51, the 109, due to its slats, is still very controllable while it buffets on the edge of a stall. Also, using a little rudder you can 'wing walk' it, to get that last little bit of turn out of it, by using the rudder to prevent a wing tip drop and stall.

So, the exercises..

1)take the plane up to 10k, and drop to full flaps, and go into a flat turn and hold it for as long as you can. Pull back as hard as you can while still not stalling. Let it shake like crazy, do what ever it takes but keep it turning. Keep practicing this until you can hold it forever turning and turning while it shakes like crazy.

2) Practice doing steep barrel rolls when your airspeed is under 130 mph, with your flaps out. Get used to being able to pull the plane into the vert, even as its shaking like crazy.

3) Fly through the hangers, and after each pass, bring the nose up until its at a 90 degree angle. Then hold it there for as long as possible. HINT, back off the throttle and give some rudder once the airspeed becomes slow. Once the plane finally pitches over, dive down and go through the hanger again and repeat.

As boring as it may sound, it will quickly give you the 'feel' of the 109.


It doesn't sound boring but I have a question or two...
1. what should I be doing with my throttle while turning flat? I'm assuming upthrottling to max...
2. pull vert then start the roll from 130mph?
3. no question...
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline maddafinga

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1400
      • The Musketeers Squadron
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2010, 01:31:31 PM »
lol Agent is the king of auger and maybe I'm the duke, well as warhed says, I'm auger123 ;)...

your not flying aggressively enough if you don't auger from time to time... you have unlimited lives, so push that baby to the limit! :rock

by the way, who wants to join my auger league? 10 points for the kill shot and auger move ;)


Oh man, I must already be a member of your league without even knowing it Ardy... 

How many times have I crashed out of one of our fights?
madda
The Musketeers Squadron
http://www.musketeers.org/
When the Dude is recognized in the World, Undudeness is seen everywhere... Dude De Ching
http://dudeism.com/tao/

Offline PJ_Godzilla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2010, 01:41:50 PM »
Oh man, I must already be a member of your league without even knowing it Ardy... 

How many times have I crashed out of one of our fights?


I think augering must be part of 109'ing - or maybe just AH'ing. It's not like I haven't managed it in other AC.

I had a zero-alt k-key pullout the other day, though, and was as proud of myself as if I'd just crapped out Nike of Samothrace. It's a decent evasive, too, since the wise pilot will think he's about to get a prox. kill and pull off - and the fool might just auger behind you.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Ardy123

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3417
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2010, 01:53:02 PM »
It doesn't sound boring but I have a question or two...
1. what should I be doing with my throttle while turning flat? I'm assuming upthrottling to max...
2. pull vert then start the roll from 130mph?
3. no question...

1. Full throttle. Just leave it there at first. Then, once you get the feel for it, try and repeat the exercise at different throttle settings.
2. yeah, at 130 bank to the right, pull up, then go vert until you almost can't anymore, roll left, drop the nose and slide down the side of the barrel. Pretend that there is a plane in the middle of the barrel and your trying to turn around it's 3-9 line.
Yeah, that's right, you just got your rear handed to you by a fuggly puppet!
==Army of Muppets==
(Bunnies)

Offline grizz441

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7000
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2010, 02:11:49 PM »
It doesn't sound boring but I have a question or two...
1. what should I be doing with my throttle while turning flat? I'm assuming upthrottling to max...
2. pull vert then start the roll from 130mph?

I have never seen you fly and you might be very skilled, I'm not sure, but the important step the majority of players skip while pondering the ins and out of a new aircraft is learning ACM and sharpening those maneuvers first.  Once you have those tools in your toolbox, switching planes becomes a much easier task.  You can learn a plane's advantages and nuances by simply flying it.

With the 109 however, you do have to learn an entirely different way of shooting at the enemy which can prove challenging if you don't understand the concept.  Basically, you never want to 'bleed' onto an enemies 6 and shoot at him from dead 6.  Whenever you point your nose for guns, you want to point at a collision intersection point where he will hopefully fly right in front of your guns at 100-150 yds.  Whenever I set up a gun solution, the gun solution is never sustainable, it comes and goes in the blink of an eye and you have to fire on time and on line the first time.

Offline Ardy123

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3417
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2010, 02:20:13 PM »
With the 109 however, you do have to learn an entirely different way of shooting at the enemy which can prove challenging if you don't understand the concept.  Basically, you never want to 'bleed' onto an enemies 6 and shoot at him from dead 6.  Whenever you point your nose for guns, you want to point at a collision intersection point where he will hopefully fly right in front of your guns at 100-150 yds.  Whenever I set up a gun solution, the gun solution is never sustainable, it comes and goes in the blink of an eye and you have to fire on time and on line the first time.

If I remember correctly, Grizz had created a great thread about how to do it in the help section.
Yeah, that's right, you just got your rear handed to you by a fuggly puppet!
==Army of Muppets==
(Bunnies)

Offline grizz441

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7000
Re: You 109 pilots.
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2010, 02:23:31 PM »
If I remember correctly, Grizz had created a great thread about how to do it in the help section.

Yeah that showed how to do it in a certain situation.  But there are also ways to do it in the MA, like when a guy never sees you coming.  Slashing in from 7-8 o clock taking one chance at 100yds and buzzing by I prefer much versus setting up on him at 6oclock.  If he sees me and breaks my gun solution is spoiled.  There's also a much less likely chance he will see me from 7-8 o clock slash for two reasons.  One, most likely he will have only checked his dead 6 for bogies and for two, his allies might not realize I am slashing for him and won't give him a check 6.  If I'm coming dead 6, he's much more likely to break.