You 109 pilots.

[PJ_Godzilla]

With the 109 however, you do have to learn an entirely different way of shooting at the enemy which can prove challenging if you don't understand the concept.  Basically, you never want to 'bleed' onto an enemies 6 and shoot at him from dead 6.  Whenever you point your nose for guns, you want to point at a collision intersection point where he will hopefully fly right in front of your guns at 100-150 yds.  Whenever I set up a gun solution, the gun solution is never sustainable, it comes and goes in the blink of an eye and you have to fire on time and on line the first time.

Well, you are the man on this matter. I've honestly gotten kills both ways with the beast but suspect the reason for the inferiority of the bleed and 6 has to do with longer-term (like surviving the sortie) survival, yes?

Getting down in the dirt seems to be a terminal situation whereas picking from above seems entirely surviveable - and satisfying, but also trickier. We could say that generally, I think. Why is the pick so important for the 109? Should I always be fighting down?

I'm not all that skilled but I'm a good learner and feel like I'm making decent progress, given how much time I have for this.  

[grizz441]

Then comes the concept of sliding your head over for better visibility on these types of slashing shots so you don't have to worry about your airframes obstructing your view at gun solution.  

[grizz441]

Well, you are the man on this matter. I've honestly gotten kills both ways with the beast but suspect the reason for the inferiority of the bleed and 6 has to do with longer-term (like surviving the sortie) survival, yes?

The reason dead 6 is so poor is for a few reasons.  I have already mentioned a couple.  It is also very difficult to hit him.  You are shooting arcing taters at a very thin surface area and if you miss with the first couple bursts, he will see the bursts in his front window, and he is breaking HARD.  Once he breaks with you 200-400 yds on his tail, it is IMPOSSIBLE to regain gun solution.  You can't get your nose out far enough in front of his break to hit him.  It's not even worth trying.

Coming from a slash angle, you are still shooting at a skinny section of his plane, but assuming you line it up in the Z direction(up and down), you get the opportunity to shoot at him from Nose all the way to tail, which is a nice thick line to try to connect with.  Yes you only get one chance at a slash angle but lets be honest, you need to be a sharp shooter in a K4 with only 65 rounds so if you can't make these shots with some reasonable success there's no point in flying it, as you are only going to be getting 1-2 kills/sortie.

[Ardy123]

Well, you are the man on this matter. I've honestly gotten kills both ways with the beast but suspect the reason for the inferiority of the bleed and 6 has to do with longer-term (like surviving the sortie) survival, yes?

Getting down in the dirt seems to be a terminal situation whereas picking from above seems entirely surviveable - and satisfying, but also trickier. We could say that generally, I think. Why is the pick so important for the 109? Should I always be fighting down?

I'm not all that skilled but I'm a good learner and feel like I'm making decent progress, given how much time I have for this.  

I don't come close to Grizz's skill but I find that the easiest shots with the taters are crossing shots... In these types of shots the other guy will give you full profile of his plane and you can use the cockpit frame bars as a means of when to shoot (or I do atleast). The simplest form is to force a vert reversal on the guy as he dives down on you. All you need to do is pull up, roll and boom. Most sticks will pull up to follow you, and they will pull up in front of you. At the top, you can use your rudder to hold the nose of your plane there and almost hang, waiting to setup the perfect solution as the other guy pulls up in front of you.

[PJ_Godzilla]

The reason dead 6 is so poor is for a few reasons.  I have already mentioned a couple.  It is also very difficult to hit him.  You are shooting arcing taters at a very thin surface area and if you miss with the first couple bursts, he will see the bursts in his front window, and he is breaking HARD.  

Ah, it starts to make more sense. I don't use the tater gun. I can't hit with that thing unless I'm arcing in on a bomber. As a rule, I prefer the G-14 with the 20 - or possibly 3. Yes, I recognize the drawbacks of the gondos but they're great for BnZ or for bomber killing. It's just really bad to get caught low and/or slow with them. 

[grizz441]

Ah, it starts to make more sense. I don't use the tater gun. I can't hit with that thing unless I'm arcing in on a bomber. As a rule, I prefer the G-14 with the 20 - or possibly 3. Yes, I recognize the drawbacks of the gondos but they're great for BnZ or for bomber killing. It's just really bad to get caught low and/or slow with them. 

The key is learning that you have the ability to control how close an enemy flies through your guns.  Once you learn how to create and exploit these incredibly close crossing angles, you will start to see the applicability of the 30mms.  Whenever you try to set up a nice crossing shot and it turns out to only be 300yds on the cross, ask yourself if you could have gotten that bogey in closer and how could you do that.  Getting your nose out as far as you can is the general rule of thumb for bringing him in close.  I like to use the flag pole concept as a training point.  Imagine a very long flag pole extending out of your enemies nose, say 2-3 times the length of the aircraft.  If you track that point in space at all times, he will draw in very close and you will be lined up with him also.

[PJ_Godzilla]

The key is learning that you have the ability to control how close an enemy flies through your guns.  Once you learn how to create and exploit these incredibly close crossing angles, you will start to see the applicability of the 30mms.  Whenever you try to set up a nice crossing shot and it turns out to only be 300yds on the cross, ask yourself if you could have gotten that bogey in closer and how could you do that.  Getting your nose out as far as you can is the general rule of thumb for bringing him in close.  I like to use the flag pole concept as a training point.  Imagine a very long flag pole extending out of your enemies nose, say 2-3 times the length of the aircraft.  If you track that point in space at all times, he will draw in very close and you will be lined up with him also.

I recall two instances of unwittingly doing such a thing in a K-4. In both cases, I heard the explosion and saw the kill award without being able to see the actual kill. Doing that systematically has got to be tough. OTOH, I roped a Mossie in one not too long ago. It was relatively easy to close on him after the reversal and blow his wing off. He'd already given up any chance, though, and, honestly, what kind of Mossie pilot follows a K-4 on a steep climb?

Generally, with the K-4, I fire and wonder where the hell the shell went. Not so with 3x 20's banging away - or even 1. But, I'll try your 2-3 length thing. I still enjoy flying the k-4 and it's a damn good escape pod, should I screw things up (highly likely). It's also a fine bomber killer and doesn't run out of puff like the G-14 does up there.

[grizz441]

Generally, with the K-4, I fire and wonder where the hell the shell went. Not so with 3x 20's banging away - or even 1. But, I'll try your 2-3 length thing. I still enjoy flying the k-4 and it's a damn good escape pod, should I screw things up (highly likely). It's also a fine bomber killer and doesn't run out of puff like the G-14 does up there.

If you hit with the bbs and not the tater, it's a very strong indicator that you undershot which I like to refer to as the cardinal sin of tatering.

[cactuskooler]

lol Agent is the king of auger and maybe I'm the duke, well as warhed says, I'm auger123 ...

your not flying aggressively enough if you don't auger from time to time... you have unlimited lives, so push that baby to the limit!

by the way, who wants to join my auger league? 10 points for the kill shot and auger move

by the way polar, no more 'I like turtles' in your avatar... shame.. the turtles are pissed.

I think augering must be part of 109'ing - or maybe just AH'ing. It's not like I haven't managed it in other AC.

I had a zero-alt k-key pullout the other day, though, and was as proud of myself as if I'd just crapped out Nike of Samothrace. It's a decent evasive, too, since the wise pilot will think he's about to get a prox. kill and pull off - and the fool might just auger behind you.

Easy boys, your starting to work our side of the street.

[Yenny]

Only thing you need to know about manual trim is when you're diving and you can't pull up, all you need to know is where your elevator up trim is at !