Author Topic: Fw190A-8 and 20mm MG151/20 gondolas (Read 518 times)

Fishu · « **on:** December 08, 1999, 07:07:00 AM »

Shouldn't there be two 20mm MG151/20 cannon gondolas for Fw190A-8?
Yeah, thats right, total of 6x20mm(!)

Pongo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 1999, 08:51:00 AM »

I knew it was underarmed. And what about the R4M rocket.. and the mk 103..I want the 103 and double zoom... All those unescorted buffs would start feeling pretty lonly.

Fishu · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 1999, 09:23:00 AM »

Oh yes, the R4M rockets, those would be fun stuff along with the WGr21s, which are yet to be finished

(those things doesnt blow up yet)

juzz · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 1999, 09:36:00 AM »

What about those wire-guided AtA missiles they tried out? X-4 or something? Just for laughs...

Hristo · « **Reply #4 on:** December 08, 1999, 12:34:00 PM »

Also removing cowl MGs. Art should be changed then too, no more bulges below the gunsight.

Fishu · « **Reply #5 on:** December 08, 1999, 01:02:00 PM »

I can imagine folks in HTC cursing at germans and their headless designing which goes over that what AH's engine can support

-ik- · « **Reply #6 on:** December 08, 1999, 01:20:00 PM »

there were also underwing loadouts for a total of 8 mg 151's

Hristo · « **Reply #7 on:** December 08, 1999, 01:49:00 PM »

Right, Fishu

And to make their life even more miserable, how about correct art for 2 MG 151 loadout on 190A-8 ?

I mean, even with 2 cannons, you still see outer wing cannons right now.

fats · « **Reply #8 on:** December 08, 1999, 02:01:00 PM »

Little if any operational use of 2xMG 151/20, MK 103 pods hence it's reasonable we don't have them. Ik, AFAIK out board cannons were removed if pods were used thus max is 6 MG 151/20 cannons.

No operational use of R4M rockets on A-series that I know of, some D-12 ( I forgot which exactly, maybe D-9 too? ) had R4Ms.

Removing cowl MGs would be very nice, who uses them anyway? The bulges wouldn't need t be changed how ever, they simply faired over the blast tubes leaving cowl otherwise unchanged. I have yet to see a picture of A-8 or A-9 with out bulges.

//fats

funked · « **Reply #9 on:** December 08, 1999, 08:08:00 PM »

Pongo: The MK103 would be fun, but only a few planes were built as prototypes for ground attack. They were not used for interception duty. As far as I know the R4M rocket was never used on the Fw 190.

Hristo: Most of the planes that had the cowl guns removed still had the bulges. The entire G-8 series was like this as I recall.

Ik: Fats is right. The twin MG151/20 pod on the A-6/R1, A-7/R1, and A-8/R1 required the removal of the cannon in the outboard wing station. The same goes for the R2 kit (MK108).

What I'm really hoping to see is the F-8 and G-8 variants.

Centerline:
1 x 250 kg, 1 x 250 kg, 4 x 50 kg, 4 x 70 kg cluster bomer, or 1 x 66 gal fuel tank.

Wings:
F-8: 4 x 50 kg bombs or 4 x 70 kg cluster bombs.
G-8: 2 x 250 kg bomb or 2 x 66 gal fuel tanks.

Here's a picture: http://members.xoom.com/mikewaltz/fw190awing.html

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 12-08-1999).]

fats · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 1999, 03:05:00 AM »

Funked,

There are pictures of Fw 190D-12 ( ? ) with R4M racks.

Also if you look at the 'Squadron/signal publications Fw 190 IN ACTION' booklet, it lists R2 as a MK 108 in underwind pod. Which is wrong, R2 was in fact installed inside the wings.

I guess you follow Ruy's message board? Both of these issues have been talked over there maybe 2 years a go. Folks over there might be able to provide proof quite quickly.

//fats

Fishu · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 1999, 04:10:00 AM »

Fats: Little use of 2xMG151/20? give me a break

I fly alot that FW with couple cannons, just because it gives off more maneuverability (I mean also alot that needed maneuverability) for the plane.
2x20mm is still 500 rounds out of 780 rounds with 4x20mm, so it is quite fair load even with only two cannons.
I've done many 4-6 kill sorties with 2.

fats · « **Reply #12 on:** December 09, 1999, 08:15:00 AM »

Fishu,

Next time try reading the message before replying. I was talking about the 2xMG 151/20 and MK 103 pods. Neither which to my knowledge saw service ( in numbers ).

//fats

funked · « **Reply #13 on:** December 09, 1999, 08:43:00 AM »

Fats:

I have a drawing from RLM showing R-2 as internal or external. But no photos of the external version, so I'd guess it was not produced.

Regarding the rockets, there was a Panzerblitz 1 rocket produced for the F and G series in 1945. This was a an R4M air-to-air rocket modified for air-to-ground use, and it used the R4M racks. D-12 was also a ground attack aircraft so it would logically deploy this weapon too.

weretiger · « **Reply #14 on:** December 09, 1999, 01:14:00 PM »

hello

as far as i can tell..
from (RLM prod sheet, booklet from A8 and fligt tests.

R1 = pod of 2* mg 151 + 150 round each some bits went into the wing so exit the the inboard guns.
the top speed was reduced of 30 mph...
the roll rate would have been affacted as well.
As far as i can tell it was mainly used by ground attack (and not long because it was not very efficient against armor)
However it was used against bomber (before allied escort). I believe it was ground attack units or may be the precusor of the strumstaffel....

R2:
2 mk 108 + 55 rnd in each wing
- 5 mph as far as i can tell it was internal instead of the outer mg 151/20.
was used quite a lot under the R8 (r2+r7)
powerfull bomber destoyer however poor balistic
there was test done with a a5 in a config idem r2 but with mk103 and 35 round.
tested against tank and bomber was concidered as unsatisfactory because to small to knock a heavy tank and to small ammo load for figther.

R3: as far as i know they was as well
a pod version of the Mk108/103 with 65 rounds
- 10 mph.

ps If i may i would very much prefer a A7 or a A5 without the outer guns....

[This message has been edited by weretiger (edited 12-10-1999).]