Author Topic: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?  (Read 1271 times)

Offline papjohns

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Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« on: April 27, 2010, 10:54:31 AM »
It's nice that the allies are getting a new tank and the Mossie is being updated etc. But as an axis squadron given the fact that Fuel Burn is 2x it is making it impossible to launch any sort of Strategic Bombing attack using German Bombers. The JU88 simply does not have the range. How about the He177.

HTC; can we please either put a German Bomber into the planeset that has range and/or allow the introduction of skins for the KG200 B17s or better yet; a Do200? It just looks really dumb when 6 of my squaddies land and it says XYZ landed XYZ damage in a B17 of <insert any German Squad Name Here>...simply because of the above issues.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 11:00:10 AM by papjohns »
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 10:56:01 AM »
Yes, please.

EDIT:  Don't really care which one.....
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 10:59:28 AM by VonMessa »
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Offline Zoney

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 10:57:58 AM »
Please, yes.
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Offline Jayhawk

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2010, 10:59:13 AM »
+1

I'm always for more bombers.
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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 11:03:41 AM »
whats the 88s range on max cruise?
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 11:04:25 AM »
Do 217 FTW!  :rock

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Offline Lusche

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2010, 11:06:06 AM »
whats the 88s range on max cruise?

That's a hypothetical question... how far is a Ju 88 able to get into enemy airspace before getting shot down due to lack of speed, alt, and defensive armament? ;)
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Offline papjohns

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2010, 11:10:25 AM »
We attempted a strategic bombing mission the other day with 6 sets of JU88s and 2xTa152 escorts; with 4x500Kg bombs (no 50KGs) we could barely make it to the target (150mi) and return safely (125mi) w/a cruise alt of 20k starting from a 5k base. We ended up diverting due to lack of fuel (100%). Now mind you the above is a pathetic 11 sectors (with 2 sectors being planned a single engine or glide back return). Our new "policy" is that we will fly B17s for these missions based on the KG200 history (though they were not used in such a capacity), until we can get a German Bomber that has range.

I could care less about the armament; first I have to be able to plan a mission that is realistic...and I can't do that based on the range of the JU88...unless I want to attack the city NOE (lol). Of course part of the issue is the 2x burn rate; for which the LW planes get to suffer (proportionally) more than most allied planes (if at 1xburn rate you have 6 hours of fuel; what do you care if it's 2x...whereas if at 1xyou have 2hrs of fuel going to 2x screws you).

Papa
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 11:20:24 AM by papjohns »
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Offline ROX

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 11:38:40 AM »
That's a hypothetical question... how far is a Ju 88 able to get into enemy airspace before getting shot down due to lack of speed, alt, and defensive armament? ;)

Someone might know who has a strong RAF background studying 1941/1942. 

(Referring to it solely within the confines of the game is a different story as the Allies had no P-51-D, Typhoons, and Yak 9's in the early war of that time.  It might be some interesting experiments for say, teams of 20 vs 20 to put up a historically accurate scenerio in the EW or AvA arena with timed takeoffs and contact times and altitudes of historical accuracy and give it a shot.  If you are takling about LW--they are going to get BBQ'ed in a few passes.)

In Germany's magazine "Signal" of the day, they printed the lopsided graphs of the ranges of German fighter's and German bombers vs the ranges of RAF fighters and RAF bombers (not letting the cat out of the bag regarding newer/better medels in early production or models still on the drawing board.

The "Goliath" model was going to be one of Germany's longer range/heavier loadout models (in comparison to the ones we know and already have) but suffered in early trials do to the extreme overload on the engines and tendancy to catch fire.

The larger Heinkel and Dornier models some folks are refering to that did have a role in WWII (especially the BoB) were as quickly recalled from the front as the Stuka because of high disabilities to defend itself once most of it's escorts were "busy".  Even the '88's with their ventral and two dorsal gunners had huge difficulties with small machine guns vs fighters with cannon and .303 mg.

Even so, a mass of JU-88's, some Heinkel 111's, some ME-110's with Messerschmitt and FW escorts did massive damage to UK southern ports and strategic military targets during the BoB.



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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 12:18:19 PM »
hmmm, max cruise doesnt add alot to 88s range at 20k, did a test and got almost exactly the same range as papajohn. 2200rpm gave an extra sector or so compared to 2500rpm.


btw I'm all for more luftwafe bombers :aok
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Offline Wreked

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 12:23:32 PM »
The lack of a real heavy/strategic bomber hindered the Luftwaffe through out the war - but given the scope of its operational methodology the German high command never saw it as a necessity until it was too late (methods formulated during the 30's based on the short range air support concepts of Blitzkrieg etc). Even when the lack of them became apparent the development of long range heavy bombers still took a back seat as Hitler put much more faith into his "wonder" weapons (more faith than they were actually able to deliver - V2's / jet jabos' etc).


BTW I'd classify the dorniers and heinkels mentioned as only medium class buffs - they certainly didn't have the range and lift capacity the allied heavies had ie.: full load to Berlin and back from the UK.

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Offline LLogann

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2010, 12:30:57 PM »
I am all for more bombers, but keep in mind this..........   Hitler never put any effort into better bombers.  Most, if not all operating bombers for the Luftwaffe were of the 2 engine variety...........  Longest runs were across the English Channel.


With that said, there are no German bombers with range.  Lusche, is that accurate?
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Offline 1MADDOG1

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2010, 12:42:51 PM »
Steve Austin says............WHAT?
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Offline captain1ma

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2010, 12:45:52 PM »
We don't seem to have that problem in the AVA. Oh yeah, our burn rate is 1.0. maybe you guys should try out the AVA instead?

Offline Rino

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Re: Can we get a German Bomber with Range...:)?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2010, 12:49:08 PM »
I am all for more bombers, but keep in mind this..........   Hitler never put any effort into better bombers.  Most, if not all operating bombers for the Luftwaffe were of the 2 engine variety...........  Longest runs were across the English Channel.


With that said, there are no German bombers with range.  Lusche, is that accurate?

     Well at least one anyway  :D  Condor anyone?



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