Author Topic: Buffs at ultra high alt  (Read 374 times)

Offline leonid

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« on: December 17, 1999, 04:07:00 AM »
A possible penalizer for B-17s at over 30000 feet would be to delay or slow joystick response when in a gunner position, representing the extreme cold and pressure difference experienced by the exposed crewmen.

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Offline Fishu

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 1999, 06:29:00 AM »
Should take quite long time to get B-17 above 30k, should be quite slow after 25k

Offline Minotaur

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 1999, 09:48:00 AM »
I don't see a problem with the high flying buffs.  I would prefer to have the buff bombsight not work above 25k, or have it be in-accurate enough to warrant a lower attack altitude.

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Mino

-kier-

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 1999, 02:42:00 PM »
It is a question of absolute ceiling versus operational ceiling. No buff could have reached 35K with a full load, much less accurately bomb from such an altitude. And to make matters worse the fighters perform worse at that alt than do the buffs! (slight exaggeration) Leonid is spot-on. Fixing the sights alone won't fix the impossible physics.

Of course we all know the next revisions will focus on the flight model, so here's hoping this gets addressed!  

Offline JoeMud

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 1999, 04:59:00 AM »
Soon as we get AI controlled buff groups to fly with,20k would be fine but a lone buff has no chance unless he goes super high.

Offline Lephturn

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 1999, 09:05:00 AM »

That is just not true to what I've seen in AH.  With those uber-guns that all focus in exactly the same place, I regularly see BUFF drivers get 2 and 3 kills before being taken out.  Add to that the fact that pilots can gun their own plane, and I've seen more multi-buff formations in AH than in any other general arena by a long way.

The physics need to be fixed for high-alt B17's, but I'm sure Pyro and the gang will get to it in time.


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Offline Mark Luper

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 1999, 06:49:00 PM »
" I regularly see BUFF drivers get 2 and 3 kills before being taken out"

The "taken out" part is what bothers me the most. A buff can't outrun a fighter unless he is up around 30 to 35k. You get a buff at 25k or less and he is dead meat regardless of how many he may get before going down. He still gets killed. I am not that good at gunning and have a tendency to get shot down every time I get attacked, so I go to the higher elevations for some safety. Now if buffs only flew in large formations WITH gunners it would be a different story, but why penalise a buff driver with having to wait for a group when fighter jocks don't have to?

Leave it like it is and make the norden more difficult to use if ya want, but don't make it impossible to count on hitting your target after flying for 45 min or an hour to get to it.

Most posts like this are made by people who don't care to fly buffs. They just want easy targets :-).

MarkAT
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Offline SnakeEyes

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 1999, 10:35:00 PM »
Buffs that outrun fighters?

Sounds like you want a B-52 fighting against WW2 aircraft, Mark.  Umm, sorry... but I think that was in another thread See Other Thread.

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214CaveJ

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 1999, 03:05:00 AM »
I have to disagree with you Mark.  My preferred altitude for dropping eggs is usually around 25k, and often times I'll make me first pass over a target as low as 15k.  I've been to pass over a field high enough to be out of ack range, but still low enough to get them to shoot.  And I've rtb'ed more times then I've been shot down.  Sometimes I dinnae see any bandits, which is a milk run.  Other times I see so many that I know I'm gonna get shot down, so I drop my eggs and take as many of the bastages with me as I can =)
Though usually I leave the target area headed home, usually with damage, and it's about 55-45 rtb (50-50 on deadstick or not)/ ditch.  And when I run into bandits, it's a very rare day that I dinnae get any kills, even if I go down in the process =)

Offline Fishu

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 1999, 09:30:00 AM »
Mark: I would love to have air to air missiles, so I could make up the disadvantage what this unrealistic altitude of B-17s gives to me...

Hmm.. wait.. this was supposed to be simulation, not arcade shoot em' up?

Okey, lets get that B-17 down to realistic levels...

Offline Mark Luper

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 1999, 11:49:00 AM »
As far as buffs outrunning fighters: If the fighter is level with the buff at those altitudes, no he won't be able to outrun him. Most times that a fighter is lower than me, I can outrun him but there has been an instance or two that they played it smart and caught me anyway.

I don't want a B-52 in here, just the ability to fly at 30 to 35k. Now some of you, Cave for instance, like to shoot 'em out with fighters. That's cool. More power to ya. I am not that good at it so I prefer to not engage if possible. Do I loose some excitement because of this? Some, not too much though, hate taking the time to get a buff to target and not be able to hit it.

When the games changes to the point that single buff sorties are not as common, i.e. more guys who want to fly buffs are on line at the same time, more people are willing to fly as gunner (and be able to hit what they shoot at), then the need for such high altitude flights won't be necessary. A good bomber element consisting of 3 to 4 bombers would be difficult to shoot down by single attackers. It would take a concentrated effort by several fighters as was recently demonstrated by the Flying Pigs. They managed to decimate a group of 4 or 5 bombers flying in formation without a loss to their own if memory serves me.

Another thing that will change will be the introduction of the B-26.  A much faster bomber and one that a lot of us buff drivers will be willing to fly lower.

As it stands right now it is too easy for a single pass kill of a buff with one fighter assuming he dives in on the buff from a higher alt and a lot of speed.


MarkAT
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Offline Fishu

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 1999, 12:40:00 AM »
Mark: ever considered of using alternative routes, instead of going straight from point A to point B?
That should give less headache.
and you have to remember that many B-17s went down in real life also, they were also hunted there, but in AH B-17s doesnt get organized hunters on them.

Offline Dinger

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Buffs at ultra high alt
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 1999, 03:04:00 AM »
Hmm... you know, kier is right.  A bombsight by itself won't fix the problem.  You'd just get folks who fly 35k to ip, dive to drop alt, and climb back up.
I'm sure Mark's counterparts flying 17s in WWII would have loved to be able to fly higher, maneuver better and run faster than the interceptors coming to get them.  And Fishu's interceptor predecessors would really have appreciated strapping AMRAAMs to their 109s.