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Author Topic: Some Great 109 info  (Read 1516 times)

Offline jdbecks

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Some Great 109 info
« on: May 01, 2010, 07:01:07 PM »
Came accross the following site, and found some great info including Luftwaffe flight reports, speed charts, climb charts etc covering most of the 109 range, its quite interesting reading and got some great info.

http://www.kurfurst.org/

 :aok
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 07:03:40 PM by jdbecks »
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Offline Angus

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2010, 09:48:51 AM »
Kuffie's site. He did get kicked out from this BB a few times. The love of the 109 caused some....very uncareful words.
Anyway, lots of data there.
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline ACE

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2010, 06:24:47 PM »
That is a nice site.
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Offline Scherf

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2010, 06:43:45 PM »
Quote from: Angus on May 03, 2010, 09:48:51 AM
Kuffie's site. He did get kicked out from this BB a few times. The love of the 109 caused some....very uncareful words.
Anyway, lots of data there.

Wasnt' just here - he got banned from posting on wikipedia. <shrug> Just an anglophobe lawyer with an agenda.
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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Angus

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2010, 01:05:26 PM »
Wooot? Banned from Wiki.
Maybe the selective data again? Or angry wording....
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2010, 04:09:33 PM »
Quote from: Angus on May 04, 2010, 01:05:26 PM
Wooot? Banned from Wiki.
Maybe the selective data again? Or angry wording....

Angus, look up Me109 on Wiki and read the 'Discussion'.
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Offline jdbecks

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2010, 05:34:20 PM »
wait, so was he very pro 109 and tried to portray the plane to be better than it was in real life? or did he try to say it was worse?
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Offline Bronk

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2010, 05:45:43 PM »
Quote from: jdbecks on May 04, 2010, 05:34:20 PM
wait, so was he very pro 109 and tried to portray the plane to be better than it was in real life? or did he try to say it was worse?
Very pro. He cherry picked data make it look better.
IIRC he said things like  the 109k had better range than a 51d with tanks... or something close to that.
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Offline jdbecks

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2010, 06:05:46 PM »
Quote from: Bronk on May 04, 2010, 05:45:43 PM
Very pro. He cherry picked data make it look better.
IIRC he said things like  the 109k had better range than a 51d with tanks... or something close to that.

 :lol

Its a shame when people let feelings overcome the truth, it can really hurt ones credability
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Offline Stoney

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2010, 10:18:19 PM »
Quote from: jdbecks on May 04, 2010, 06:05:46 PM
:lol

Its a shame when people let feelings overcome the truth, it can really hurt ones credability

Actually, to me, out-right lying is better than twisting facts to create some sort of desperate alternate reality.  I.e.  grasping for whatever justification can be construed from a document because you believe its right, even if you can't find one shred of evidence to prove you're right.  I'm a stubborn guy, no doubt I've proved that on these boards before.  But, there's a difference between being stubborn and being obstinate.
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Offline Angus

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2010, 05:05:53 AM »
Well, his site does contain data, and not all of it favours the 109 that much. Look at my signature, - that is actually on the site.
I have little doubt though, that it is well picked generally. The 109F's performance looks a bit off, but yet I cannot find an explanation to it.
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Charge

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2010, 05:34:02 AM »
If there is data available so shouldn't it all be presented, not just the best or the worst? From best and worst (or all that's available) you can make a more accurate estimate of the average than from just one source which cannot be related to anything? AFAIK it is hard to find exactly performing plane and average data.

How do you know if these guys at www.spitfireperformance.com have not hand picked their data to suit their "agenda" just as you suggest Kurfy did? Or does it just suit your agenda best?  :lol

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Offline Stoney

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2010, 06:30:18 AM »
Quote from: Charge on May 05, 2010, 05:34:02 AM
If there is data available so shouldn't it all be presented, not just the best or the worst? From best and worst (or all that's available) you can make a more accurate estimate of the average than from just one source which cannot be related to anything? AFAIK it is hard to find exactly performing plane and average data.

How do you know if these guys at www.spitfireperformance.com have not hand picked their data to suit their "agenda" just as you suggest Kurfy did? Or does it just suit your agenda best?  :lol

-C+

Charge, Angus, I'm talking about his attitude, not his website.  My post was to reinforce some of the other comments like Bronk's or
Scherf's...
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"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

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Offline Angus

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2010, 07:22:46 AM »
The attitude was at times quite terrible.
Anyway, it's good to look at both of those sites to build up your own database. After all, there are several copies of WW2 documents in there.
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline FLS

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Re: Some Great 109 info
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2010, 10:16:50 AM »
Quote from: Charge on May 05, 2010, 05:34:02 AM
...
How do you know if these guys at www.spitfireperformance.com have not hand picked their data to suit their "agenda" just as you suggest Kurfy did? Or does it just suit your agenda best?  :lol

-C+

One clue would be if they've been banned from any forums.
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