Rangoon Sunrise frame 1 ...

[Brentlo]

<S> TUK. AOM enjoyed escortin' ya'll.

I dunno how I got 6 kills though...I am the worst pile-it

With JG11 and AOM escorting WD40...I think they made it through pretty well.

I don't post much and am not familiar with all the forum rules but your post must have broke one that limits "gross self flagellation."
We got two more frames keep it up Spikes

[Brentlo]

I like where your head is at Dogg what you said is probably correct and more realistic.  Sitting on the runway at cockpit readiness for half the frame wouldn't be very exciting though.

[Shifty]

This setup should have had 75% of the allies on the runway waiting for a radar contact/ visual contact by scouts.  Then the rest of the Alied could then take off.  Not be waiting like wolf packs at 25K or higher.  Something like this is what was done in WWII.  U had squadrons out scouting while the main force was in the mess hall having coffee, playing cards, etc...  When contact was made, they scrambled to defend the target.  This type of setup would have been more suitable and fair for the axis and may even been more of a realistic approach of what really happened in WWII.

That's not a bad idea at all.

[AKKuya]

There was a set up around a year ago for the Pacific that had a perfect 3 frames for it.  The 1st Frame called for one side to be 100% offense and the other 100% defense.  The 2nd Frame had both sides 50% defending and attacking.  The 3rd Frame had both sides switching roles from the 1st Frame.

That was a very even set-up overall that I have participated in FSO with no cause for misinterpretation.

When I read the admin orders for Frame 1, I had flashbacks from the Rangoon Scenario 2 years ago.  This FSO seems extremely similar to that debacle.  That scenario had the Axis attacking Rangoon and the Allied strictly defending.  The Allied pilots just kept a tight perimeter around Rangoon and each Frame played out the same each week.

I do realize that the Special Events wensite is under construction.  to forHim for the volunteer work on that.  We were kinda rushed on choosing sides for this FSO and we took 'a leap of faith' to allow the CM's to get the sides organized quickly.  No problem there.

What I want to know is Frame 2 and Frame 3 going to be both Axis attacking and Allied defending?   If that's the case, then the Allies have the upper hand in this with the A6M2 as the only Japanese fighter trying to protect the bombers plus the fact that the Allies just have to stay close to the targets and wolf pack the attackers.

[gyrene81]

I have to disagree with Ghost on his rant...not called for and not accurate. I still don't like the use of the overmodelled Brewster in this setup but nothing to be done about it...probably should be limited. If historical accuracy is in any way considered for FSO setups then the only error that ocurred was the fact that the entire Allied force was allowed to be in the air and waiting for the Axis forces to arrive...AKDogg hit the nail on the head with that aspect and the remaining frames should reflect a change to address the issue.

The sides were balanced...the plane set is good (except for the Brewster)...some of the failure could be attributed to a lack of preflight coordination between some groups and a lack of procedural knowledge in proper bomber defense with many players. If anyone feels there is a problem, it has very little to do with the setup or the orders that were given.

[APDrone]

The sides were balanced...

Wrong.  The combination of one-side-defends-only, 50 - 50% side assignments, and japanese plane set for offense, showcases the fact that the D3A is so helpless, it is only slightly more destructive than a C47. It's a fun plane to fly, but, realistically, any allied who gets shot down by one got sloppy.

The Japanese were forced to field 60 D3As.. which meant their fighters are outnumbered 210:140(+/-) right off the bat.  All the allies have to do is dispatch the fighter cover and then go have a free for all buffet feeding on the Vals.  B25s probably wouldn't fare much better.. except they might be able to out run some of the allies.

On a different note, the one-side-defends-only, 50 - 50% side assignments, Late European Theatre, and American planes for offense is a balanced fight.  The B17s and B24s are capable of defending themselves against an attacker ( unless the attacker is very good and/or, the bomber gunners are very bad ).

This isn't new, we've seen it before, and I can't fault anybody for not recognizing it before I did.. which was about the time 1 brewster and 2 I16s were breaking down my D3A's digital structure.

Looks like some side assignments are going to change for frame 2, so maybe that will even it out a bit.

Still lovin' it.

 

 

[AKDogg]

With the suggestion I gave, there is a few draw backs.  The defenders may never up if the scouts don't see them.  But, that could be fixed by when the base starts to flash, defenders can up.  With that though, the attackers can't be above 20k as the defenders would never be able to get up to alt in time.  One thing with design of anything regardless of what it is, there is always a problem with it.

Other problem like Brentlo stated is waiting for the attackers to come so u can up.  That can be nerve racking.

I still give it a try regardless of waiting or not.

[thorsim]

meh ...

i may need to see some rules, but i am sure we could manage this set up with a little brainstorming and good execution of the resulting plan. 

i have seen the "underdogs" dominate in worse situations with some good efficient effort and execution.

[gyrene81]

I seriously doubt, with limited targets and the CiC's knowing what they are, that there would be any instance of no contact...the dots can be seen out to nearly 8k yards...perhaps a set time for sitting on the runway/tower for all but 3 allied scout squads.

[Spikes]

I seriously doubt, with limited targets and the CiC's knowing what they are, that there would be any instance of no contact...the dots can be seen out to nearly 8k yards...perhaps a set time for sitting on the runway/tower for all but 3 allied scout squads.

Was just about to say...maybe 5 or 10 minutes

[Kermit de frog]

Ghost, do not threaten another CM again, as a CM yourself, you know that this is not the way.  <S> Ghost, I hope this was just a lapse in your good judgment caused by strong emotions you may have of the issue.  I may be doing the same with my words below.

To everyone else blaming others for failure:

The Attackers have to defend their bombers just as well as the defenders have to defend their vbase/airfield.  One side defends an immobile target while the other side defends a stationary target.  The attackers have to attack their target just as well as the defenders have to attack their target.  There will always be many good ideas as there are bad.  Hope the FSO CM's can review the ideas posted in this thread if they have not already.

Here are some tips that we can apply for failure and success:
Fighter sweeps
Close escorts
Detached escorts
High/low attacks
Multi-direction attacks
Scouts

If you do not know these things, get with the AH trainers, read a book or simply learn from other squadrons in FSO you fly with or against.  Or do nothing.

Failure can be your best teacher, for all you have to do is listen.

I failed as much as I succeeded last frame, and I loved it.

[AKP]

Yup... looks like 3 squads got switched to Axis for balance.  We will see how it affects frames 2 & 3, but I am guessing the Axis will have an easier time of it.  Defender does inherently have the advantage though.

[perdue3]

To Group Mothra:

I apologize for not showing. My comp decided to take a dump on me Tuesday and its seems not having me around has ignited low morale in the squad

In consequence we only had 1 pilot show up. Again, I apologize and hope for a MUCH better showing for Frame 2. However, I will not be in attendance for I am going out of town for Joe Nall R/C fly-In.

Viel Gluck <S>


perdweeb

[TUK]

To Group Mothra:

I apologize for not showing. My comp decided to take a dump on me Tuesday and its seems not having me around has ignited low morale in the squad

In consequence we only had 1 pilot show up. Again, I apologize and hope for a MUCH better showing for Frame 2. However, I will not be in attendance for I am going out of town for Joe Nall R/C fly-In.

Viel Gluck <S>
Apoligy acepted, However your attack group demolished its objective and had a great frame without you... You owe us many scalps and we hope you come back frame 2 with many souls to sell to the devil...

perdweeb

[AKKuya]

To everyone else blaming others for failure:

The Attackers have to defend their bombers just as well as the defenders have to defend their vbase/airfield.  One side defends an immobile target while the other side defends a stationary target.  The attackers have to attack their target just as well as the defenders have to attack their target.  There will always be many good ideas as there are bad.  Hope the FSO CM's can review the ideas posted in this thread if they have not already.

Here are some tips that we can apply for failure and success:
Fighter sweeps
Close escorts
Detached escorts
High/low attacks
Multi-direction attacks
Scouts
If you do not know these things, get with the AH trainers, read a book or simply learn from other squadrons in FSO you fly with or against.  Or do nothing.

Failure can be your best teacher, for all you have to do is listen.

I failed as much as I succeeded last frame, and I loved it.

This only applies to when both sides have targets to defend and attack.  It's up to the CIC's to create orders for these tactics for implementation. 

However, the current FSO has the Axis attacking for all 3 frames and the Allies defending all 3 frames.  Why would an Allied CIC need to create orders for any of that when the only tactic is to say, "Squads stay close and stay high.  Enemy will arrive over target before T+60."

The Allied CIC will have double the normal amount of squads for defense.  This set-up has no 'chess like appeal'.  It's simply a brute force combat in the favor of the Allies.

The only acceptable set-up for one side to be attacking all three frames is a late war for Allied.  The Axis has the fighters to defend and the Allies have the bombers to do both damage and to defend.  Each FSO should have both sides attacking and defending.