Author Topic: Artillery  (Read 1939 times)

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Artillery
« on: May 13, 2010, 01:26:51 PM »
Why not?

I'd like both SP and immobile artillery. Imagine the possibilities. It would total open up the indirect fire route as a means of annihilating a base. With it would come the need for stealth and recon.

And imagine the spectacle of a scenario like one an old Korean war vet recounted to me. He was part of an SP155 unit that, at one point, was actually in a "pocket". As he put it, "we cricled the wagons and never saw a thing". It was a local overrun - I imagine the T-34s steered well clear - the 155 being quite capable of reaching out and touching someone.

Imagine the possibillity of on-shore/off-shore duels. Imagine the puffy ack. Imagine hiding behind a hill and capping away with impunity while one of your squaddies observes and directs your fire.

Mayhem, death, blood... it's great. Consider how many casualtyies are caused by art'y in war and you've got to admit, we're missing a big chunk of causality for casualty.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2010, 01:33:42 PM »
It would only be good for leveling towns and bases...vs tanks it will lose...good luck dropping a 155 HE on my moving Panzer a mile away while I hit you with 75mm AP.  :lol

Don't forget...we don't have infantry to decimate with artillery.
jarhed  
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2010, 02:18:48 PM »
It would only be good for leveling towns and bases...vs tanks it will lose...good luck dropping a 155 HE on my moving Panzer a mile away while I hit you with 75mm AP.  :lol

Don't forget...we don't have infantry to decimate with artillery.

Since when has levelling a base been not worthwhile? What about counterbattery fire against those trying to level your base? This is yet another dimension of the arms race. What about infantry that behaves something like either autonomously or under the direction of a player?


Many artillery weapons have good direct fire capabilities. Consider, for example, the SU-152. Care to take that on with your PunyPunkPanzer? I attach a little account below. The SU152 will leave you mit ein pupenschute fertig!


The SU-152 was produced throughout 1943. The 152 mm gun was a highly effective antitank weapon. It fired a very large shell, making it useful against infantry as well. It provided long-range fire support for tanks, particularly against German heavy tanks and strongpoints. The principal disadvantages of the vehicle were a low rate of fire due to the heavy ammunition, low ammunition storage (only 20 rounds) and a cramped and un-ergonomic crew compartment. Its armor protection was adequate.

The SU-152 was issued to new heavy mechanized gun regiments, raised in May 1943. The first regiment arrived at Kursk with only twelve guns, and was brought up to its full strength of twenty-one guns during the fighting (Zaloga 1984:165).

In defensive manoeuvre SU-152s were utilized by Soviet forces as powerful anti-tank weapons. Usually SU-152s were used to ambush German tanks. Another common tactic was to amass SU-152 fire (very often direct, sometimes indirect) against the enemy. The power of the SU-152's large high-explosive shells allowed it to damage enemy armoured vehicles even without armour penetration. The 152.4 mm BR-540 armour-piercing round, with a total mass of 48.8 kilograms, devastated enemy vehicles. With a muzzle velocity of 600 meters per second, it was able to penetrate 100 mm of armour at a distance of 2000 meters. At closer ranges the kinetic and explosive energy of the shell could rip the turret off a tank. As a result, it was claimed that SU-152s managed to destroy at least seven German Elefant tank destroyers, which were unstoppable with any other antitank weapon. German after-action reports claim the loss of just one Elefant to an SU-152. Numerous German AFVs were claimed as destroyed or damaged by SU-152 fire; for example, Major Sankovskiy destroyed 10 German tanks in a single day with his crew and his SU-152. He was awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet UnionHero of the Soviet Union
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 02:21:31 PM by PJ_Godzilla »
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline bravoa8

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2010, 02:20:05 PM »
It would only be good for leveling towns and bases
Cvs too. :D

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2010, 02:51:58 PM »
Since when has levelling a base been not worthwhile? What about counterbattery fire against those trying to level your base? This is yet another dimension of the arms race. What about infantry that behaves something like either autonomously or under the direction of a player?


Many artillery weapons have good direct fire capabilities. Consider, for example, the SU-152. Care to take that on with your PunyPunkPanzer? I attach a little account below. The SU152 will leave you mit ein pupenschute fertig!


The SU-152 was produced throughout 1943. The 152 mm gun was a highly effective antitank weapon. It fired a very large shell, making it useful against infantry as well. It provided long-range fire support for tanks, particularly against German heavy tanks and strongpoints. The principal disadvantages of the vehicle were a low rate of fire due to the heavy ammunition, low ammunition storage (only 20 rounds) and a cramped and un-ergonomic crew compartment. Its armor protection was adequate.

The SU-152 was issued to new heavy mechanized gun regiments, raised in May 1943. The first regiment arrived at Kursk with only twelve guns, and was brought up to its full strength of twenty-one guns during the fighting (Zaloga 1984:165).

In defensive manoeuvre SU-152s were utilized by Soviet forces as powerful anti-tank weapons. Usually SU-152s were used to ambush German tanks. Another common tactic was to amass SU-152 fire (very often direct, sometimes indirect) against the enemy. The power of the SU-152's large high-explosive shells allowed it to damage enemy armoured vehicles even without armour penetration. The 152.4 mm BR-540 armour-piercing round, with a total mass of 48.8 kilograms, devastated enemy vehicles. With a muzzle velocity of 600 meters per second, it was able to penetrate 100 mm of armour at a distance of 2000 meters. At closer ranges the kinetic and explosive energy of the shell could rip the turret off a tank. As a result, it was claimed that SU-152s managed to destroy at least seven German Elefant tank destroyers, which were unstoppable with any other antitank weapon. German after-action reports claim the loss of just one Elefant to an SU-152. Numerous German AFVs were claimed as destroyed or damaged by SU-152 fire; for example, Major Sankovskiy destroyed 10 German tanks in a single day with his crew and his SU-152. He was awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet UnionHero of the Soviet Union
You seem to have missed/overlooked some very important points in your counter argument...first and foremost NO GROUND TROOPS EXIST IN AH...and they most likely won't considering the lenght of time AH has been around and the fact that even now the goons we have are 2d toon characters.

Secondly...the red highlights will tell you where your SU-152 will fail against a Panzer IV in AH unless you get very very lucky. It was a good example of what could be done but the rate of fire would make it mostly ineffective against rolling tanks except in cases where you can camp the spawn/hangar or setup an ambush...and in either of those cases a tank is just as effective.

The SU-152 was not the norm for self-propelled artillery, it was copied from the Jagdpanzer and Sturmpanzer:








Most Allied gun carriages carried 105 and 155 mm howitzers that could only traverse up and down...not sideways...like the M7 Priest.



For leveling towns and bases...even hitting ships if they're not too far off...would be nice and add another dimension to the ground battles...against tanks, very much hit/miss (pardon the pun).
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2010, 02:57:50 PM »
No, I didn't really miss it. I was hoping you would. Admittedly, you could likely avoid the loping trajectory of the occasional 152 shot and get around to the 152's bellybutton end. They're NOT ideal against other direct=fire weapons.

I did, however, acknowledge the absence of infantry in AH. It'd be cool to have it, even if in squad-level form of some kind. There was a game I used to play called "Moscow to Berlin" that had a fun if unsatisfying treatment/mixture of AFVs and infantry.

Still, you cannot deny the extra dimension it would provide the game... plus, it's one step closer to the ultimate goal: virtual total war. 
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2010, 03:09:47 PM »
Still, you cannot deny the extra dimension it would provide the game...
I can't argue with that part of it...would take some special events to another level.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline 321BAR

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2010, 03:48:01 PM »
out of every arillery thread or thread hijack i have said +1 and i will say it again... +1 and add my M-18 too
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Offline Ghosth

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2010, 12:18:43 PM »
In effect we have arty now, granted I'd love to see a towed piece or 2.

But ground ops have more potential for leveling targets than they've ever had.

Offline Puck

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2010, 01:47:38 PM »
<snip>
the fact that even now the goons we have are 2d toon characters.
<snip>

<hijack>
This differentiates them from a noticeable fraction of players...how?
</hijack>
//c coad  c coad run  run coad run
main (){char _[]={"S~||(iuv{nkx%K9Y$hzhhd\x0c"},__
,___=1;for(__=___>>___;__<((___<<___<<___<<___<<___
)+(___<<___<<___<<___)-___);__+=___)putchar((_[__
])+(__/((___<<___)+___))-((___&

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2010, 01:53:22 PM »
<hijack>
This differentiates them from a noticeable fraction of players...how?
</hijack>
Man-law!!! Do not hijack a forum discussion by quoting a partial sentence to ask a rhetorical question...  :neener:


It confused me...  :D
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2010, 01:59:13 PM »
the fact that even now the goons we have are 2d toon characters.

Goon is the plane.  Drunks are the passengers.

Sorry, pet peave.  Just because they jump out of a perfectly good plane, that doesn't make them goons.  That's just disrespectful.

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Offline macdp51

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2010, 02:28:36 PM »
"It would only be good for leveling towns and bases...vs tanks it will lose...good luck dropping a 155 HE on my moving Panzer a mile away while I hit you with 75mm AP"

German Flak 88's were used very sucessfully against allied tanks in WWII - out ranged the tanks by a long shot -
Gimmmeee my Flak 88 please hi tech please -
Artillery would be awesome +1000000000000000 :rock
HP


Offline whipster22

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2010, 02:33:20 PM »
"It would only be good for leveling towns and bases...vs tanks it will lose...good luck dropping a 155 HE on my moving Panzer a mile away while I hit you with 75mm AP"

German Flak 88's were used very sucessfully against allied tanks in WWII - out ranged the tanks by a long shot -
Gimmmeee my Flak 88 please hi tech please -
Artillery would be awesome +1000000000000000 :rock
HP



same gun thats in that tiger
just dewbing up the bbs
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Artillery
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2010, 02:44:17 PM »
same gun thats in that tiger

I expect the German 128 Flak would be a sweet tank-killer, too.

How about a Pak 50mm or 75mm that I can hide in a hedgerow somewhere?

How about a Wespe or Hummel that can move or lob shells while my squaddie, sans icon, sits on a nearby hilltop and tells me, over the squad channel, how I'm doing?

More ground targets, more ground fire, MOREMOREMOREMORE.

How about some JagdPanzers while we're at it. Make mine a V. Perhaps some Sonderkraftfahrzeug are in order as well.

Just think, if AH could draw the ground combat crowd, we'd have ourselves a whole new set of targets - we could rightfully call them untermenschen, since they'd be below us in the virtual world. Imagine coordinated battles of thousands of players o n a persistent battlefield where every rotting corpse will reside 'til tour's end.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.