This week in the AvA - Leaning Into France

[soda72]

With the Battle of Britain won and the threat of Nazi invasion halted, by early 1941 the Royal Air Force High Command issued orders to take the fight back across the Channel against Adolf Hitler’s occupying forces in Northern Europe. This was termed Leaning into France. By March, Air Chief Marshal William Sholto-Douglas had replaced Sir Hugh Dowding as Air Officer Commander of Fighter Command and had appointed Wing Leaders at each fighter station in 11 Group to lead offensive operations over France.The wings normally consisted of three squadrons of Spitfires, Hurricanes or mixed formations. The new fighter sweeps it was hoped would entice the German Air Force up to fight, which in many cases it did. Another role for which the wings were used was to provide escort cover for light-bomber incursions to attack German installations and airfields. By late May and early June, the number of fighter sweeps had increased as the fine spring weather improved and daily combat with the Luftwaffe raged in the skies along the Channel Front. The RAF operations were given the following code names.

Ramrod- Attack by bombers or fighter-bombers escorted by fighters.
Rodeo- Fighter sweep over enemy territory with no bombers.
Rhubarb- Small scale attack by fighters using cloud cover and suprise, with the object of destroying enemy aircraft in the air and/or striking at ground targets.
Circus- Attack by a small force of bombers with powerful fighter escort, intended to lure enemy fighters in the air so they could be engaged by RAF fighters.

During 1941 and 1942 the RAF possessed only small numbers of light and medium bombers suitable for daytime operations. Initially operations had the appearance of a mini Battle of Britain in reverse with newer versions of the Spitfire, the MKV and Hurricane MkIIs escorting Boston, Mitchell, and Blenheim bombers against targets defended by the Luftwaffe in their updated  BF-109F. In the fall of 1941 the RAF received a nasty surprise in the form of of Kurt Tank's new fighter the FW-190 Wurger or Butcher Bird. The new radial engined fighter was superior to both the Hurricane IIs and Spitfire MkVs. Jagdgeschwader 2 and Jagdgeschwader 26 bore the brunt of the defence of the Channel Coast. Both units fielded FW-190As along with Bf-109Fs and the G2 models that were introduced in the summer of 1942. The Geshwaders battled hard against the RAF intruders. Until the introduction Spitfire MK IX in September 1942  RAF Fighter Command's pilots were hard pressed to deal with the 190s and 109s flown by the seasoned jagdfliegers stationed in France.

Setup

RAF:
Spitfire MkV
Spitfire Mk IX @ A-10 only
Hurri IIC
Hurri IID
Boston
B-25C
GVs
M-16
Jeep

Luftwaffe:
BF-109F4
BF-109G2
FW-190A5* sub for versions A1 and 2
ME-110C-4B
JU-88
GVs
SDKFZ-251
Ostwind

MAP- BOB09

RAF- Bishops

Bases:
A6 A7 A10 A11 A12 A13 A14 A15 A16
V116 V117 V118 V119 V120
P105 P106

Luftwaffe-Knights

Bases:
A36 A44 A45 A46 A47 A48 A49 A50 A60


AvA Standard Settings


Enemy Icons:        Off     
Hanger DT's:        60 mins     
AAA:                .25     
Sector/Tower Dar:   1942  079200/105600     
Dar NOE Height:     500 +/- 250ft     
Tower settings:     full friendly, tower enemy, sector enemy     
Troop Capture:     15 drunks     
Morning:           0400      
Evening:          2100      
Visibility:     10 miles     
Bombsight:     hardcore     
Hangar DT:     60 mins     
AAA DT:           30 minutes     
Towns DT:         60 mins     

[chewie86]

 

[gyrene81]

I just noticed something slightly odd...it's not a big deal...Spit V to Spit IX? Shouldn't there be a Spit VIII?

[TheBug]

The Spitfire Mk VIII didn't go operational until 1943 (due to production limitations), so the Mk IX filled the role of countering the FW190, being an easier conversion from the Mk V.  Also the VIII was used primarily in the Med and Pac, when it went operational.
<S>

[gyrene81]

Silly Brits...thanks for the info sir.

[gldnbb]

daily combat with the Luftwaffe raged in the skies along the Channel Front.

Historical aside,  the lack of numbers does not allow for fulfillment to use bombers as desgined.  In fact, the set-up only allows for continued perpetuation of  sparse 'furballing'  week-to-week.  

Also, because of the point in the war, does not allow for base capture.    Will this week  lead into the next progression of the next week?  I doubt it.

Vehicles are moot, bombers are moot,     this set up only allows for logical furballing.  Which is an excuse to use  'history'  to design a furball. No critical mass numbers to use  bombers  or  fighters, and certainly no base captures (and yes GVs  are  useless).  

No point in expending energy to design a point in history with no true point other than furballing.  Might as well get rid of all elements other than fighters.     And yes I really enjoyed the last two week setups because there was purpose other than furballing.

[Shifty]

If you're unhappy with the current setup design one to your liking and submit it to the AVA staff for possible use in the future.

[Chilli]

GoldenBB,

I would love to believe that "if we build it, they will come."  I logged on today with 8 players logged on.  We had a wonderful night sky, perfect for a nightime bomber run.  What did I actually find?  Two fighters dueling, a third joined in later.  Five players either sat in the tower or were just afk.  I made several announcements on 200 (btw all channels was not enabled) and not a single response.  In a matter of several minutes the sun began to rise and the arena was empty again.

This is a 24 hour arena and unlike special events, not too many folks that attend, log in to fly to a target in bombers.  I for one would love to see every aspect aside from the base capture, vulchfest available.  If you have any thoughts on a possible setup that you believe will promote interest in the arena, I am available to help figure out the details.

[321BAR]

GoldenBB,

I would love to believe that "if we build it, they will come."  I logged on today with 8 players logged on.  We had a wonderful night sky, perfect for a nightime bomber run.  What did I actually find?  Two fighters dueling, a third joined in later.  Five players either sat in the tower or were just afk.  I made several announcements on 200 (btw all channels was not enabled) and not a single response.  In a matter of several minutes the sun began to rise and the arena was empty again.

This is a 24 hour arena and unlike special events, not too many folks that attend, log in to fly to a target in bombers.  I for one would love to see every aspect aside from the base capture, vulchfest available.  If you have any thoughts on a possible setup that you believe will promote interest in the arena, I am available to help figure out the details.

what if some sort of voluntary FSO style set-up happened in which squads would choose a role such as fighter, bomber, GV and would team up together on one night and fight in a historical fashion
P.S. why did D-Day occur a week before the M4A3 76 came out?

P.P.S. by the way, whenever i went to the D-Day invasion setup NO ONE was GVing on the Normandy coast, it was a furball over Calais only. Perfect example of what the voluntary FSO style would do.

[Shifty]

The real problem is numbers. The only base taking attempts I've seen for months are the guys trying to capture a base when the arena is empty. Once somebody logs on and gives them any kind of opposition they log off. As Chilli said I too would like to see all aspects of the game come into play. It would be healthier for the arena if there were contested base captures and legitimate targets for the bomber guys. Instead of empty arena commandos taking bases unopposed and the bomb and bail radar porkers. The addition of USRanger's map making skills into the mix will hopefully give us maps streamlined to enhance AVA play. 321Bar a voluntary night as you suggested has been brought up in other forms such as mission nights. You might touch base with Jimson, Gyrene, or Jaeger about promoting this idea more. Goldenbb I wasn't being sarcastic about writing a setup yourself. Give the staff a setup idea with vehicle list, arena settings, and a map . They are very good about giving player written setups a chance to run.

Also anybody that complains about the lack of base capture ability and bomber useage should be the very ones getting the ball rolling by setting the example and upping bombers or putting together a base capture when the arena is active. You cannot blame other people for not doing what you want them to do if you're not willing to do it yourself. If you want something to happen... Make it happen.

One thing I would like to point out. When I put this setup together there was no intention of ground warfare because of the historical era of the setup. However there is a viable reason for the use of bombers written into the scenario. Although the setup is geared towards the initial RAF offensive operations.The Spitfire Mk IX is available only at A-10. It is the one aircraft that can eliminate the domination of the setup by well flown FW-190s. The JU-88 was included to give the Luftwaffe a chance to minimize it's impact by keeping the fighter hangers down at the only base it's available. There is strategy in placed in the setup. I was thinking savy Luftwaffe guys would see this weakness in the RAF's planeset and do something to take advantage of it. Granted it's not a run the map and wIn t3H waRz type of setup but there's a built in purpose for Buff drivers to impact the week's game play.

[321BAR]

...Goldenbb I wasn't being sarcastic about writing a setup yourself. Give the staff a setup idea with vehicle list, arena settings, and a map . They are very good about giving player written setups a chance to run.

ok. this seems like a good idea. i'll try to do this on my free time

The real problem is numbers. The only base taking attempts I've seen for months are the guys trying to capture a base when the arena is empty. Once somebody logs on and gives them any kind of opposition they log off. As Chilli said I too would like to see all aspects of the game come into play. It would be healthier for the arena if there were contested base captures and legitimate targets for the bomber guys. Instead of empty arena commandos taking bases unopposed and the bomb and bail radar porkers. The addition of USRanger's map making skills into the mix will hopefully give us maps streamlined to enhance AVA play... ...You might touch base with Jimson, Gyrene, or Jaeger about promoting this idea more.

Also anybody that complains about the lack of base capture ability and bomber useage should be the very ones getting the ball rolling by setting the example and upping bombers or putting together a base capture when the arena is active. You cannot blame other people for not doing what you want them to do if you're not willing to do it yourself. If you want something to happen... Make it happen.

Response to the first part: so basically we need more people on certain nights... simple idea on paper. Yay... what if the AvA staff throws a few messages to the LWMAs during the times that many AvA groups show up to promote the AvA Arena? if it works like it does for the SEAs we would have more and more AvA flyers for longer time periods. This would allow for more MA style combat with hopefully the chance to be historically accurate and leave a fair combat experience for the Arena... Then we could get the ball rolling

Second: Tried and failed to attempt this many times. and the feeling like some people will get angry at the base taking and porking happening in the AvA kinda makes people not do this

[Shifty]

Second: Tried and failed to attempt this many times. and the feeling like some people will get angry at the base taking and porking happening in the AvA kinda makes people not do this

In the past there was a problem of people porking the arena during off hours. It was usually one or two guys during the day time while nobody else was on. Since there are no perk points to transfer to the rest of the game in the AVA this was always a mystery to me why people would do this. Many times it would cause the map having to be reset by a staffer. So yeah this kind of activity was frowned on. Anybody that takes a base,or bombs a target when the arena is active and people are fighting actions should never be frowned on. This isn't the same thing as empty arena porking. Seriously followup on your plans to make setups as well as organizing night where there is assigned activity for squads or individual sides. The guys I mwentioned earlier, Jimson Gyrene and Jaeger have a lot of interest in this and would be more than willing to assist you. If you want to bomb or take a base by all means do so. 

[soda72]

boston III has been added...

[gldnbb]

GoldenBB,

I would love to believe that "if we build it, they will come."  I logged on today with 8 players logged on.  We had a wonderful night sky, perfect for a nightime bomber run.  What did I actually find?  Two fighters dueling, a third joined in later.  Five players either sat in the tower or were just afk.  I made several announcements on 200 (btw all channels was not enabled) and not a single response.  In a matter of several minutes the sun began to rise and the arena was empty again.

This is a 24 hour arena and unlike special events, not too many folks that attend, log in to fly to a target in bombers.  I for one would love to see every aspect aside from the base capture, vulchfest available.  If you have any thoughts on a possible setup that you believe will promote interest in the arena, I am available to help figure out the details.

Two scenarios ago,  during the D-day invasion,  I saw in a weekend at least a few folks were trying to bomb or jabo fields on both sides,   did base captures on both sides.   All because of  CV LVTs  or  C47s.... Trying to push the lines forward and backward. That and teamwork successfully implemented arena.

WHen you remove the ability to capture  via  c47 across the pond,   all other elements  are pointless.  LIke I said you might as well remove everything except the fighters.  Because you cannot capture means no one wants to practice bombing of fields of you cannot capture fields.   That is my point.

Put in the C47s,  and some (like myself) will come back.

I have 5 years experience in the Warbirds WWII historical arena and know that bombing in of itself is not enough.  You must give folks the ability to capture.  That is the only way to make bombing worth it.   The fighter jocks always come to shoot down the bombers or defend fields.   That always breaks the cycle of mindless furballing.   Please bring in the C47s.

As for 'porking',  Dday terrain was hard by ourselves,   I did take down ord and radar but someone always walked in to defend against.   Running out of time to keep playing, I'd have to come back and attempt to recapture at a later point.   It wasn't easy.

Porking you say?  It's not that simple, it is a war of reducing the enemy ability to resupply their bases or defend,  then as you wear down the enemy can you capture fields.   Real war was a slow movement of enemy defeat which you might say 'porking'  but is not.  It is war.     The D-day was a slow process and over many hours of play was almost able to push further south. 

[Chilli]

GoldenBB,

The focus of the Arena has been to present a "somewhat" historical feel to the match-ups.  This includes ground vehicles and bombers as well.  Capturing bases is something that HTC put into the Main Arenas to channel a 3 country battle.  That type of base capture will never work here for a number of reasons.  First, there are only two countries.  Second, if someone actually took enough bases it would not automatically reset the arena, and no one would be able to capture anything or for that matter do anything until a volunteer from the staff, came in and manually put all the settings in again. 

If you do understand that base captures will be difficult and still want to make this your objective, you can.  Folks are really trying to build a community here, so all types are needed.