Aircraft taking off from a treadmill: Debate

[whels]

LMAO...I guess you have to assume the engines are running... 

Think aircraft carrier here fellas...but in this case one that is going really fast doesn't matter how fast the treadmill is spinning the wheels...as soon as engins produces proper thrust to produce lift, the plane will take off.

As for the helicopter, it will fly but not for long...by the time it lifts the pressure off that turntable, it will be out of control and crash.

Engine thrust doesnt produce lift, they produce forward speed which makes the air flow over the wings to produce lift. a plane on a tread mill that matches wheel speed instantly, will never move forward to produce airflow over the wings, so it will not takeoff.

[sluggish]

Engine thrust doesnt produce lift, they produce forward speed which makes the air flow over the wings to produce lift. a plane on a tread mill that matches wheel speed instantly, will never move forward to produce airflow over the wings, so it will not takeoff.

You are correct but do you know why?

[Die Hard]

This is beyond stupid.

The only relevant factor is airspeed; the speed of air over the wings. That creates lift. The speed relative to the ground, treadmill, universe etc. is completely irrelevant.

[sluggish]

This is beyond stupid.

The only relevant factor is airspeed; the speed of air over the wings. That creates lift. The speed relative to the ground, treadmill, universe etc. is completely irrelevant.

You're wrong.

[Die Hard]

No.

[sluggish]

No.

Yes.

I've found that most of the people who don't get it typically believe that they are so smart that they don't have to think about it.  It's not that simple.

*I will add that the owner and developer of this game agrees that the plane won't fly.

[Die Hard]

The only relevant factor is airspeed. If the plane is unable to generate sufficient airspeed to take of... for whatever reason... it will fail to take off. If it manages to generate sufficient airspeed it will take off. You may argue any hypothetical scenario you want, but it will always boil down to airspeed.

The original poster suggested "the aircraft would not be able to lift off if it was on a treadmill because the treadmill would match its speed." That means that if the aircraft was travelling at 100 mph the treadmill would spin at 100 mph in the opposite direction. The wheels of the aircraft would thus be rotating at 200 mph. The airspeed would still be 100 mph and if that is sufficient the aircraft would take off. You may argue that the landing gear would fail or any other hypothetical scenario, but it ultimately boils down to airspeed.

[sluggish]

It depends if the treadmill is matching the plane's speed or the wheel's speed...

[Die Hard]

The original poster said "aircraft".

[sluggish]

If the treadmill is matching the plane's speed then it will take off without a problem.  The treadmill might add ten feet to its roll.

[Die Hard]

What you are suggesting is that the treadmill matches the planes acceleration with roll resistance. So if the plane's engines generate 100 lbs of thrust the treadmill counters with 100 lbs worth of resistance. Completely different scenario.

[sluggish]

What you are suggesting is that the treadmill matches the planes acceleration with roll resistance. So if the plane's engines generate 100 lbs of thrust the treadmill counters with 100 lbs worth of resistance. Completely different scenario.

So...  You agree that the plane won't take off.  That was easy.

[Die Hard]

The original poster said "speed" not "acceleration", so the answer is "no". I don't agree.

[sluggish]

IF...  It's MATCHING its speed its MATCHING its acceleration...

The distinction is whether it's matching the wheel's speed or the plane's speed.

[xNOVAx]

Wow this is so dumb.. The power of an airplanes engines are not transfered to the ground like a car.. It's power to the air causing forward momentum and "airspeed" no matter what's happening underneath the aircraft itself (minus the force of friction).. The airplane will takeoff but the wheels will be spinning faster.. What is so difficult about this for people to understand?