Author Topic: New M4's are somewhat strong  (Read 1995 times)

Offline THRASH99

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 270
New M4's are somewhat strong
« on: May 17, 2010, 02:20:48 PM »
Is anyone shooting an M4 75/76 more than 1 time? :huh  :furious I've been shooting at one about 10+ times and they aren't dieing like they should in 1 or 2 shots. In real life, the early shermans were thinly armored and caught fire easy. For some reason also, I'll get hit once through the front from 1000 out and die. I'll shoot them through the side and they don't die. Just tested it out in the offline, and it killed a tiger from 1200 hitting him in the hull in 2 shots. Something has to be wrong with the model, it shouldn't be doing that. :mad:

Jokers Jokers
"CAN'T TALK NOW.....GOTTA SHOOT!" - Dan Zoernig
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - 56th FG

Offline vafiii

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 315
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2010, 02:23:13 PM »
Yep. I had the same issues.

Offline Volron

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5805
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2010, 07:38:49 PM »
Oh?  I hit a M4A4 76W at LEAST 6 times with a Tiger, and 2 of those times, they just bounced right off.  The other 4 showed that tall tale sign of a solid hit, but he wouldn't die (I didn't even track or turret him).  What makes it more interesting is, there was another guy firing on the same tank, and was landing hits to his side.  He mentioned that he hit him about 8 times himself.  I forgot what he was using but I think it was a Panzer. For sure my Tiger should've killed him.  I was about 800 - 1k away from the M4A3 76W.  The good side to it is, his shots were just bouncing off my Tiger.  But me thinks that he shouldn't have survived the first hit, let alone the 6th OR the flank shots from a Panzer.

They will need to look into the M4A3 75 as well.  There have been times where I would put a near direct flank hit to one, and it would just bounce off.  Of course, I was using a A3 75 myself, so maybe it's the gun?  Range on the last one I hit was about 1k-ish, give or take 100 yards.  I havn't had the chance to do a flank shot on the A3 75 in anything but a A3 75.  But it's possible that if the 76W is like this, the A3 75 could be like this as well.  I have noticed that she can take a punishing before going down.  Do enjoy that tank though.  :rock  I consider it one ell of a B-day present, since that's when they were "released".  :x
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
Quote from: Pyro
Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline OOZ662

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7019
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2010, 07:45:43 PM »
I skipped reading about half the thread, but I've had some serious issues fighting the M4A3(76)W. The armor surrounding the gun barrel seems nigh impenetrable. I went against one in a Tiger at 500 yards, me in a hull-down bunker, him hull-down under a ridge. Three shots in varying places on his mantlet bounced. He bounced four rounds, fifth killed my turret, seventh killed my tank. I dunno, but it seems to me the Sherman would lose the entire turret structure if hit point-blank with a Tiger's AP round.

I'll note that the main body of the tank seems to be fine; I can get plenty of kills aiming for the driver's feet or side shots, but the bulge of armor surrounding the gun barrel is amazing.
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline Kenne

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 733
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2010, 09:57:57 PM »
Is anyone shooting an M4 75/76 more than 1 time? :huh  :furious I've been shooting at one about 10+ times and they aren't dieing like they should in 1 or 2 shots. In real life, the early shermans were thinly armored and caught fire easy. For some reason also, I'll get hit once through the front from 1000 out and die. I'll shoot them through the side and they don't die. Just tested it out in the offline, and it killed a tiger from 1200 hitting him in the hull in 2 shots. Something has to be wrong with the model, it shouldn't be doing that. :mad:

I knew from the gitgo that the 75 sherm wood be 'up gunned' and by you expero with the Tiger proves that..that is if you are using the 75mm sherm against the tiger..the 76 'shood' be able to do damage to a Tiger, the same that the Panzer does to the tiger.

But the 75mm sherm had NOTHING to penatrate 100mm of armor plate of the tiger.. and at 1km...its best was ~80mm.

Women are like the Government. They have no problem that can't be solved by throwing money at it!
لقد حصلت على تذكرتين إلى الجنة

Offline 321BAR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6140
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2010, 10:11:06 PM »
I'll note that the main body of the tank seems to be fine; I can get plenty of kills aiming for the driver's feet or side shots, but the bulge of armor surrounding the gun barrel is amazing.
89mm turret frontal armor mate :aok thats all aok. the body isn't correct from my perspective. i've shot shermans from pnzrs and tigers and it took many hits to kill it
I am in need of a new epic quote
Happy Jack's Go Buggy

Offline OOZ662

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7019
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2010, 10:27:53 PM »
89mm turret frontal armor mate :aok thats all aok. the body isn't correct from my perspective. i've shot shermans from pnzrs and tigers and it took many hits to kill it

You saw me correct myself in the other thread.
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline Tigger29

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2568
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2010, 10:33:13 PM »
Guys.. it's simple.. films or it didn't happen.

There may well be some kind of bugginess to the damage model of these, but without any kind of evidence, it's hard to prove anything to HTC

Offline OOZ662

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7019
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2010, 10:35:08 PM »
Guys.. it's simple.. films or it didn't happen.

It did happen. And it was supposed to. :) A Tiger could only penetrate the M4A2 and M4A4 (close enough, I figure) mantlet armor at a range of 200m.
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2010, 09:43:15 AM »
These new Shermans are tougher on the hull armor than they should be...doesn't make much difference which side either...gotta hit the engine or right where the turret joins the hull. Doesn't make much difference what tank you shoot it with either. Not a very accurate damage model.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline WWhiskey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3122
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2010, 09:48:58 AM »
I'm not having any trouble getting kills on it or in it!
It is just like any other tank in the game, you have to hit it in the right place tho, and that may not be the same place on some other tank!
just my opinion tho! :noid
Flying since tour 71.

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2010, 10:14:21 AM »
Well, at ~1000 yards getting 2 shots on one with a Panzer then getting single shot killed by that same tank with a frontal shot is not kosher...as long as you don't hit that Sherman near the main gun, it should be a kill in 1 shot.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline WWhiskey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3122
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2010, 01:04:22 PM »
Well, at ~1000 yards getting 2 shots on one with a Panzer then getting single shot killed by that same tank with a frontal shot is not kosher...as long as you don't hit that Sherman near the main gun, it should be a kill in 1 shot.
are you talking about the 75 or the 76? also the front slope should be fairly tough the chin is still soft tho, as in the sides. I am not sure of the upgrade in armor when they went to the bigger gun but i would bet the 76 should be tougher! I have not used the 75 in a tank fight yet, but use the 76 almost all the time now.
Flying since tour 71.

Offline Kenne

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 733
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2010, 07:38:25 PM »
It did happen. And it was supposed to. :) A Tiger could only penetrate the M4A2 and M4A4 (close enough, I figure) mantlet armor at a range of 200m.

are u high? :O

the max amor of the sherm is ~90mm
an 88mm can do that at 1km!

that is if HTC is using historical stats!
Women are like the Government. They have no problem that can't be solved by throwing money at it!
لقد حصلت على تذكرتين إلى الجنة

Offline OOZ662

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7019
Re: New M4's are somewhat strong
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2010, 07:41:47 PM »
It's based on the table about 1/4 of the way down this page under the heading "Penetration Table 02: Sherman A2, Sherman A4."

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm

Keep in mind thickness is not the only factor in armor penetration.
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.