F4U-x Tips

[the4ork]

hey guys, im looking for any tips you can give me for the corsair. i have been flying the F4U1 a lot lately, and am looking for any tips on dogfighting it, ive been doing alot of bnz with it as i keep auguring when i try and stay with the fight

[Saxman]

For me it depends on the situation. In large fights you want to try to stay fast and get above the fight. The Corsair holds on to airspeed very well, but if you get slow she doesn't regain speed or altitude easily. This can make her vulnerable in large furballs if you let your enemy drain you of E. In small fights or 1v1 where you don't have to worry about the bad guy having friends show up you can afford to slow down against most opponents. However against Zeros, I-16s, Brewsters, F4Fs, Hurricanes, Ki-84s and I would also add early-mark Spits (I and V) and 109s (E, F, and G-2/6) you want to stay fast.

Some guys advocate getting your flaps out as early and as full as possible and leaving them there for the duration, but I disagree. I try not to let the fight get slower than the 200-250mph range (1-2 notches of flaps) if I can. Drop a notch of flaps only as long as you need it (IE, going through the top of a vertical extension) and get them back up immediately. This is the REAL key to flaps in the Corsair: You're going to be constantly working them up and down throughout the fight. The rudder is also VERY important to effective handling of the Corsair. She has one of the best rudders in the game, so you want to use it. I'm almost constantly leaning on the rudder when maneuvering in the Corsair, especially in High-Yo's and other vertical maneuvers.

Corsairs excel at the rolling scissors, and in general any other contest involving roll, especially at high speeds. At low speeds she doesn't roll quite as well to the right, however the resistance going to the right isn't as significant as aircraft like the 109s. She'll hold together at dives nearing 600mph, and doesn't really begin suffering control lock until around 550mph.

As far as fuel management goes, I prefer taking off a base or two back when flying the F4U-1 and 1A and taking full fuel. I use this fuel burn procedure:

1. Left Wing to 50%
2. Right Wing to 75%
3. Left Wing to 25%
4. Right Wing to 50%
5. Main until empty

This provides you with an excellent reserve if your main tank gets holed (fuel and engine oil seem to ALWAYS be the first two things to get hit in the Corsair....) and can help stabilize the aircraft against torque. In the Mains you can go to 1/8 Left, 1/4 Right if you want to lighten her up further, but you won't have as much of a reserve (you can get her about a sector on cruise settings with that). I usually fly the 1D/C for ground attack so generally take full ordinance and no DT. In the -4 I'll go without tanks if I'm scrambling for short-range defense, but if I have time for climb out I'll usually take 1-2 DTs.

[SAJ73]

Even if it is not advisable to get below 200 in the F4U, I think you should do some testflights at low speeds also. Just to get familiar with the stall behaviour of the plane. And learn how to keep her 'floating' at stallspeeds by using flaps and rudder to keep her straight, or make controlled moves at extremely low speeds. I've learned alot about controlling the F4U by flying it really slow.
Then you will be much more able to keep it from augering while furballing in the future, and even landing your kills will be an easier task. Because the F4U can be a pain to land proper if you tend to come in too fast at the runway.. Let her glide in, low and slow, drop the gear early to airbrake.

For landing I use one notch of flaps as I glide in, push the nose down level and adjust the speed so she almost lands herself. Dropping two more notches of flaps just before touchdown to set the wheels softly down, at this point I use some left rudder to keep her stable. When wheels are on the runway I raise the flaps all the way to reduce the lift, and pull back on the stick to lock the tailwheel as I wheelbrake to a full stop.

Back to the fighting. When going fast, you might want to drop your speed quickly some times i.e. to prevent a overshoot. Or to keep your speed down in a dive.. Then I use the gear down for airbrakes, and you can also add some hard rudder to brake even harder so you skid the plane. In most cases its a no no to drop speed in a fight, but its still good to know how to do it effectively I think if the situation requires it.

I even use the gear as a last resort if I am allready way too slow in a hard turnfight allready on full flaps and just needs that little extra to gain lead on my opponent. Dropping the gear at just the right time makes your turn just slightly tighter for a short moment, can be just what you need to get your guns on the guy turning infront of your guns. But the gear adds alot of drag, so you don't want to forget to raise it again!

But if you plan on just staying alive, airspeed is your friend. And stay ontop of the fight, don't get tempted to follow those who want you down on the deck, be sure they have a friend just waiting to come and get you from behind..

I don't care if I die, I am in this game for the fun of the fights so I am always tangled up in the middle of the fight down low. But I die alot also.. 

[Saxman]

Keep in mind that there's a difference between knowing HOW to handle the Corsair in a fight at stall speeds when you're forced into that position, and deliberately putting yourself INTO that situation.

I never condone the use of landing gear in combat with two exceptions: Dive-bombing and the initial dive on a target if I have a large starting altitude advantage and want to avoid coming in too hot. The drag burns off far too much E and will actually put you into a worse position against opponents with higher turn rates (Spitfires, etc) if you're not able to capitalize immediately (IE, you damn well better have at least a 90% probability of killing the target if you do it). If I'm fighting against another Corsair and I see his gear go down, more often than not I know I've got him because he's blowing all his E for one opportunity while I maintain my speed and keep above him. With the exception of the -4, the Corsairs just accelerate too poorly.

Furthermore, dropping the landing gear doesn't have any effect whatsoever on the Corsair's turn radius. The turn radius remains the same, and she'll stall out at the same airspeed regardless of whether your gear are up or down. All dropping the gear does is act as a big anchor and can actually make you HIT stall speed that much sooner. You can get just as slow with your gear up.

A better approach to avoiding an overshoot is to use your excess speed to ADVANTAGE, don't burn it off. If you're about to overshoot go vertical. The Corsair is an unusual plane in that she can dump speed at will, but can ALSO hold onto it for a damn long time. You can still be aggressive without having to dump E for one shot opportunity. If you're maneuvering with the target and can't follow him because of excessive airspeed and are about to pop out in front of him, roll over the top and drop back in behind him again. If it's a straight run on his 6 go UP. If your airspeed advantage is significant enough he'll have a very tiny window to try and pull up to follow you, after which you'll zoom well out of his reach and be in a position to reverse and drop back down on him again. If he was too aggressive in his pursuit attempt he may even now be struggling to get his nose down to regain control. Just keep your vertical extensions withing 1000-1500 yards and you can keep the pressure on him and prevent him from neutralizing your advantage.

[Vudak]

4ork, I interpreted your initial post as your saying that you wanted to learn how to fight on the edge without augering so much.  Is my interpretation correct?

If so, grab a friend and head into the TA.  Start a fight at 3k or so alt and just go at it.  Don't worry if he gets on your tail, just keep trying to shake him (his bullets won't hurt you).  Your hog will accelerate so poorly that after very little time you will be at or near stall speeds.  Try and get a feel for how many notches of flaps you need to stay aloft.  Further, try and see how much rudder input (and in what direction) you need to keep your bird relatively stable and in control.  It might be interesting to have your friend start off fighting you in something like a Mustang for the first few sessions, then a Corsair, and finally (long down the road) a Hurricane or Zeke.

A good way to get a feel for low speed control on your own is to practice tail slides.  Take a hog into a vertical climb, and see how long you can keep the nose pointed up.  Use your rudder to help balance you, and try and get your airspeed as close as possible to "0" before your tail slides out from under you, and your nose falls towards the ground.  Then, try and control that fall until you can "catch it" approximately where you want to.  Use a hangar or other landmark as a reference point.  Try this with different flap settings and try to enter the zoom climb at different speeds.  See what effect they have on each other.  Once you get more comfortable, try to enter the zoom climb at a lower alt, and see just how much alt you need to pull this off.

This should help you prevent kissing the trees as much.  Hope it helps!

 

[SgtPappy]

Sax, by August, I'm probably going to have enough disposable income to subscribe.

Could I set up a TA session around that time? I still don't know how to really use the rudder effectively.

[Saxman]

Sure. Hopefully my computer is up to it, been having some overheating problems lately. :-/

[Mathman]

Best advice I can give for the F4U:

Stop flying it and switch to the Hellcat.

[humble]

My 2 cents is as follows...

Work to maximize your E state as much as possible when your -E (as noted acceleration is for beans) and work to maximize the value of your flaps and rudder authority when you have the advantage. The hog has tremendous rudder authority and thrives in any type of a vertical, the only time (IMO) you want to get it "flat" is to force an overshoot and throw a bogey out toward your 3/9 line so you can begin a scissor. Never turn flat if your +E and never defend -E with a true flat turn, only 1/4 to 3/4 hard turn with the idea of reversing back (scissor).

The question of speed control has to be in the context of both the other pilot and your perception of relative skill level. I'f I've got a bit of air under me I love to get the hog to stall vs planes like the spitfire, nikki or ki-84 where the hog has a decided advantage at low speeds (again my opinion). Even a spitty can't hang with a hog under 175 in a turn fight. The ki-84 is very dangerous under 165 but if you get him that slow and then speed up his flaps suck in and leave him floundering at 175.

The biggest advantage the hog (and F6F) have is the ability to generate tremendously potent +E attacks due to flaps and control authority but offer a very competitive capability at stall (especially in the verticals). This creates the potential to have an exploitable advantage regardless of initial E state. If your slower you can be aggressive and press for early angles walking your flaps and if +E you can go vertical and use your rudder and roll to control the fight from the perch.

[SIK1]

Best advice I can give for the F4U:

Stop flying it and switch to the Hellcat.

WOW!! Talking about dragging up ghosts Vudak, and Mathman in the same thread!

[SgtPappy]

I'f I've got a bit of air under me I love to get the hog to stall vs planes like the spitfire, nikki or ki-84 where the hog has a decided advantage at low speeds (again my opinion). Even a spitty can't hang with a hog under 175 in a turn fight. The ki-84 is very dangerous under 165 but if you get him that slow and then speed up his flaps suck in and leave him floundering at 175.

I don't know... I guess you're very much a good hog driver because I always found that TnB, slow in the weeds with a Spitfire is a death trap unless that Spitfire happens to be a XIV or XVI. An VIII or IX (better Spitfire pilots fly those as well) I think can really give the hog a hard time at those low speeds. They're very stable and they turn VERY well, also having very low stall speeds. Very different from tackling a Spixteen.

[Saxman]

The biggest concern with low-speed fights in the F4U is capitalizing QUICKLY on the opportunity as you gain lead. The F4U WILL turn inside the Spit VIII, IX, XVI and XIV at full flaps. The problem is the turn RATE. If you fail to successfully end the fight early once you get slow, the Spitfire's superior turn rate is eventually going to get him around on you if you're turning in the same circle. Additionally, the superior level acceleration and rate of climb of the Spitfire can put you in a bad position very easily if you're slow.

It's not so much the Corsair's turn radius, but her instantaneous turn when you first drop a notch of flaps that REALLY wins the low-speed fights. Each notch you drop will really kick you around the turn, but once it becomes a sustained turning contest at full flaps if you miss your shot you're now out of E and running out of options unless you have some altitude to work with.

This may be what REALLY contributes to the perception of the Corsair's low-speed fighting ability: She has that capability with a notch of flaps to instantaneously get her guns on target, and can end the fight before her weaknesses at low speeds can be exploited.

[whiteman]

A6M, I-16, Brewster, Hurri, F4F, FM2 and the two goof balls the Val and SBD are the only planes i won't get in a slow turn fight with. Learn to use the flaps and rudder and you can beat just about every plane unless the pilot is better. That's the way i prefer to fight and have a habit of getting lazy on climb out and just going in at 8k and not holding the E advantage to start the fight, but that doesn't mean I'm not controlling the fight. Barrel roll defense and rolling scissor are my bread and butter and sucker people in.

just prepare to die a lot in the process of learning.

[SgtPappy]

The biggest concern with low-speed fights in the F4U is capitalizing QUICKLY on the opportunity as you gain lead. The F4U WILL turn inside the Spit VIII, IX, XVI and XIV at full flaps. The problem is the turn RATE.

Agreed. Turn rates are generally far more important than turn radius, most of the time. This is why I have never really attempted to turn with Spitfire pilots who I knew were just as good as myself.

For many a Spitfire pilot in the H2H days, turning with them was not a challenge at all.

Though I still have room for improvement.

[Vudak]

I don't know... I guess you're very much a good hog driver because I always found that TnB, slow in the weeds with a Spitfire is a death trap unless that Spitfire happens to be a XIV or XVI. An VIII or IX (better Spitfire pilots fly those as well) I think can really give the hog a hard time at those low speeds. They're very stable and they turn VERY well, also having very low stall speeds. Very different from tackling a Spixteen.

Like others pointed out, you want to end it quickly, but if you're caught alone, low, and slow with a Spit, you may as well just go super aggressive because with their better acceleration and climb, you will not escape in any other way.

Also, the fact that the Spitfires are so stable can be used against them...  The hog's instability is one of its most interesting assets.

It pays off to drag a good Spit pilot into the DA and die repeatedly to them in your hog.  If you can get close vs. them, you'll have much better luck in the MA.