F1 coming back to the US (Austin, TX) in 2012

[Scherf]

Might help if the F1 boys manage to get their solids together enough to have a tyre which works on the tracks they:ve booked. They're really going to have to uncork something special to wash out the bitter taste of their last effort in the US.

Say what you like about NASCAR, I:ve never heard it accused of being a parade. Last few F1s I:ve seen, could have switched off after the first corner, and I used to live for the damn stuff.

[saggs]

Might help if the F1 boys manage to get their solids together enough to have a tyre which works on the tracks they:ve booked. They're really going to have to uncork something special to wash out the bitter taste of their last effort in the US.

As I understand it the problem with the tires in the last US Grand Prix at Indy, was due to the extreme downward G forces exerted on the cars during the banked oval section of the track.  No other F1 track has had that, and Austin won't either since it will be built as an F1 track, not a high speed oval adapted for F1 like Indy.

So far this year the Bridgestone tires have been awesome..  Alonso did 72+ laps on single set at Monaco and they still looked like they could do another 30 laps at the finish.  He wasn't just cruising either he was driving hard, moving from last place up to 6th (parade huh, pppffssshhhh).   All bets are off for nest year though, as Bridgestone is pulling out of F1.  Rumors are either Pirelli or Cooper/Avon for next season.

Say what you like about NASCAR, I:ve never heard it accused of being a parade. Last few F1s I:ve seen, could have switched off after the first corner, and I used to live for the damn stuff.

Then I hereby accuse NASCAR of being a parade.    With the exception of the first race in Bahrain this year, all the races have had some good overtaking action, it's just not always at the front. 

People have been complaining about the lack of overtaking in F1 for ages.  I just don't get it though, these are the best drivers in the world, how can you expect to have constant overtaking at that level of racing, they are all just to good to be constantly passing, and being passed.  If you want overtaking throw some crappy minor league drivers on the front of the grid so they'll have someone to overtake.  Or reverse grid, that would be crazy.

[Scherf]

I hear what you're saying about the banked track, but that wasn't exactly a blinding surprise, either to the engineers or to the (ptui!) people who run the sport.

Alonso came from 24th to 6th? Wow, a super-rich team guy passed some poor-house teams? Why not compare # of lead changes / race? (Have there been any in F1 this season? Not in the pits? Beyond say, lap 3?

Like I say, I used to live for F1. Can't be arsed these days. Rather watch kids in go-karts - more fun and excitement.

[speak]

IMO they were having these tire issues with Ralph Schumacher at Williams and Toyota.  I believe the tires would have been fine, it was just a drivers preferred setup (maybe too low tire pressure) that caused the tire to deflate.  But back on the subject, Austin, TX here I come.  I just wish F1 would return to the "run what you brung" 3.0 ltr cylinder qty is up to the mfg.   I really miss the sound of the V12s and V10s.  They should regress back to the early 90s package, when F1 was in the hayday.  And for the American open wheelers, bring back the turbocharged V8s that made the sounds at Indy freaking amazing.   Went there for time trials, and it just isn't what it used to be.   Last good race for Indy was in 95, its a shame Tony George neutered that series.

[saggs]

Another good race in Turkey, plenty of fighting going on at the front.

I'm really shocked however with the way Red Bull is handling the crash between Webber and Vettel.  They are completely unwilling to admit that it was 100% Vettel's fault.  They keep saying things like "both drivers should have given each other more room" and "we're a team" implying that Webber is to blame as well.  Vettel turned right into him, there was absolutely nothing Webber could have done to avoid, he was holding his line, and was still a long way's from the braking point.  IF Webber had come off his line and slowed making it easier for Vettel to stick the pass, then he would have opened himself up to attack from Hamilton, Webber did NOTHING wrong.  And IF Vettel had held his line he probably could have stuck the pass coming out of the next corner.    Then the Red Bull management all coddle and hug and tell Vettel it's all OK on the pit wall. 

I can't believe that Red Bull won't just man up and say, "Yes, Vettel screwed up, but we all make mistakes, it happens,  let's move on." and be done with it.  Instead they seem to be all worried about hurting Vettel's feelings or some PC crap.  And it's not fair at all to Webber the way they keep implying that it was his fault.

[klingan]

Why not compare # of lead changes / race? (Have there been any in F1 this season? Not in the pits? Beyond say, lap 3?

Im pretty sure Webber, Button and Hamilton were all in the lead at some point in Turkey. And im not counting Pitstops.

[saggs]

Im pretty sure Webber, Button and Hamilton were all in the lead at some point in Turkey. And im not counting Pitstops.

And Vettel, by just a nose, for about 1.5 seconds, before he tried to drive through Webbers car. 

[klingan]

And Vettel, by just a nose, for about 1.5 seconds, before he tried to drive through Webbers car. 

Lol yea that one to 

[Saurdaukar]

 Read this and laughed.... I bet your waiting... I'd take the entry pay anyday,I'd heard that Shummie was getting 100K per point as a bonus in his last year with the "red" team!

 But Mazz,tell the turth,do you really think you could even launch an F1 car? I dont think I could but I'd sure like to try it as long as I dont have to pay for those clutches.........
    

Heck, I doubt I'd even make it out of the paddock.  

Closest seat time I can claim is a Formula Atlantic car - once - and even if I could get an F1 car to move more than 3 feet without either (A) spinning the rubber right off the wheels or (B) stalling it repeatedly, I can't even begin to imagine the difference.

Ya sure, me too  

I've wondered though, surely there must be some American drivers in CART or Champ Car or Indycar that could make the jump to GP2, or GP3 for a few years, then at least have a shot at F1, right?

Didn't Sebastian Bourdais make the jump from Champ Car champion to F1 a few years ago?  (Bad example I guess, he didn't last long in F1, wonder what he's doing now)

There was a kid who was coming up through Formula Mazda a couple years back.  Cleaned up in Karts, Ford, etc.  Think he even got a seat in a GT3 for one of the ALMS races.  He has been the front-running US candidate for a little while - though I haven't heard anything in awhile.  Think he might be making the rounds in Europe right now.  Will have to look up his name - something Italian IIRC.

I also ran at Summit Point a few weekends back with a kid doing the Teen Mazda Challenge thing and he had some serious talent for his age (read: not even old enough to drive on public roads yet).

As for existing drivers - I would start my search in NASCAR for the guys who repeatedly place in the top three on the road circuits.  Gordon would come to mind, first.  

This kind of crap is one of the reasons I stay away from F1.  Most of the people that follow F1 are too busy looking down their noses at any other form of motorsport.  Same kind of attitude you find at little wine/cheese parties on the west coast where everyone compares the gloss level of their Ferrari to see who has more class.  You don't enjoy a certain form of motorsport, no problem, don't watch it.  But to go out of your way to belittle anybody that may enjoy it is narrow minded and childish.

I wouldnt say that.  While oval tracks are not my thing and, frankly, I find them boring, that doesnt mean I look down upon them.  I'd probably say that, when push came to shove, not many other people really do either.

I'd like to think that true motorsport fans can appreciate all forms of racing - some just gravitate towards a particular type of it.  

I love F1... but, at least on my car, I'm more concerned with spring rates and brake cooling than perfectly waxed paint and I dont attend cheese and wine parties.

I am, however, a beer snob... so you can keep your Miller Lite in the glove box.

I KEEEEED I KEEEEED!  

[RTHolmes]

I'm really shocked however with the way Red Bull is handling the crash between Webber and Vettel.  They are completely unwilling to admit that it was 100% Vettel's fault.  etc.

thats because it wasnt, watch it again. when vettel makes his move there is barely enough space to go through. as he does so webber moves across to the left slightly to squeeze vettel even more and intimidate him. its subtle but you can plainly see it from vettel's incar footage. vettel will have seen this clearly out of the corner of his eye.

now I cant explain why vettel moved across so much and so quickly that he touched webbers car, but it was a reaction to his teammate trying to push him off the track. it was both drivers' petulance that cost redbull a 1/2 finish.

[-tronski-]

thats because it wasnt, watch it again. when vettel makes his move there is barely enough space to go through. as he does so webber moves across to the left slightly to squeeze vettel even more and intimidate him. its subtle but you can plainly see it from vettel's incar footage. vettel will have seen this clearly out of the corner of his eye.

now I cant explain why vettel moved across so much and so quickly that he touched webbers car, but it was a reaction to his teammate trying to push him off the track. it was both drivers' petulance that cost redbull a 1/2 finish.

Thats EXACTLY how I saw it (although plenty dont see it that way)...Webber left the gate open & Seb had the inside run, momentum and upcoming racing line - Webber totally tried to squeeze Vettel out!
I think thats what Christian Horner thought to when he refered to how the McLaren guys gave each other miles of room when the had their little passing moves later, and his guys didnt.

 Tronsky

[saggs]

Thats EXACTLY how I saw it (although plenty dont see it that way)...Webber left the gate open & Seb had the inside run, momentum and upcoming racing line - Webber totally tried to squeeze Vettel out!
I think thats what Christian Horner thought to when he refered to how the McLaren guys gave each other miles of room when the had their little passing moves later, and his guys didnt.

 Tronsky

I think you guys are seeing things that aren't there.

Just watched it again, half a dozen times, from 3 different cameras, I don't see Webber trying to squeeze him at all, Vettel was still  3-4 ft off the curb for pete's sake, he still had plenty of track.  Vettel also had plenty of room before the braking point to continue past Webber.  There was no reason at all for Webber to yield yet, and Vettel just turned right into him.  

Watching Webbers onboard cam he twitched left a tiny bit, but that was before Vettel came alongside, once he saw Vettel alongside his steering was straight on, and then even a touch to the right to give Vettel more room once his nose was ahead.  Watching the racetrack cam you can clearly see that Vettel had 3-4ft of track between him and the curb when he turned into Mark.  Watching Vettels onboard you can see him turn in, even though he has plenty of track on his left.

It was obviously Vettel who turned into Webber, while Vettel had plenty of track, seems pretty cut and dry to me.  I'm not ragging on Vettel, I like him, just my opinion that he screwed up.  Heaven knows Webber has done similar things, like when he took out Hamilton in Australia.

If you watch the press conference closely you can see Webber explaining with his hands to Hamilton what happened while Button is talking.

As for Mclaren, they actually did touch wheels when Lewis took it back from Jensen, but it was more incidental contact, whereas Vettel blatantly turned into another car.

[saggs]

thats because it wasnt, watch it again. when vettel makes his move there is barely enough space to go through. as he does so webber moves across to the left slightly to squeeze vettel even more and intimidate him. its subtle but you can plainly see it from vettel's incar footage. vettel will have seen this clearly out of the corner of his eye.

now I cant explain why vettel moved across so much and so quickly that he touched webbers car, but it was a reaction to his teammate trying to push him off the track. it was both drivers' petulance that cost redbull a 1/2 finish.

I just did watch it from Vettels car, several times, in slow motion.  I see at least 3 ft. between his car and the white line when he turned into Mark.  How is that being "pushed off the track."??  

It was tight with Vettel's wheels on the white line when Vettel first came alongside.  But by the time he's got his nose ahead, Mark was moving right giving him more space. Just before the impact the gap between their cars was growing till Vettel turned into him.   Webber gave him plenty of room.

Though I cannot fathom why, Vettel came alongside, nosed ahead, and then just turned into him. Simple as that.  Vettle had the momentum to make the pass stick too, if he'd only stayed straight on he'd have had the inside line on the corner.

[morfiend]

 Saggs,it's simple he wanted the lead and went for it. Vettel was either going to get the lead or crash trying as any good driver should do.

 Supposedly there's no "team" orders and each driver is suppose to race every driver on the track. Vettel just made a mistake and put himself out,had he made the pass and pushed Mark offline it would have been heralded as "great" move.

 Now Redbull can proclaim to the world,"we have no team orders,look what happened between Vettel and Webber."

 Thats the irony of F1,no team orders in a team sport,we cant have drivers letting their teammates by for a win!

 I'm begining to feel like Scherf,not giving a damn for a sport I've followed since the mid 70's.


 PS: Mazz ya made me laugh again, ,  I'd sure like to give it a try myself,closest was a formula Vee with it's 80 to 100 hp......


   

[Widewing]

Looks like Austin may be out... New York may be in for 2012...

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100521/F1/305219998