90 degrees penetration and armor plate penetration damage

[Yeager]

Two intersting statements from Pyro on the new patch notes and my questions:
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Hit angles now go all the way to just under 90 degrees.

Fixed an issue where rounds that penetrated an armor plate but did no damage appeared as if they had ricocheted off and not penetrated.   
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Ok.  so what happens if my round hits the target at 90 degrees precisely?

And a round may penetrate armor plate and do no damage, or it may not.  How does the code determine if the penetrating round does or does not deal out damage?
 
 

[OOZ662]

Ok.  so what happens if my round hits the target at 90 degrees precisely?

And a round may penetrate armor plate and do no damage, or it may not.  How does the code determine if the penetrating round does or does not deal out damage?

It truncates to 89.99 degrees (or something similar) instead of 70, I would assume.

The same way it always had. Though it's for a different game, HiTech stated ours works the same way excepting that instead of having the tank sit and burn, when the driver is dead or going to die (ie a fire would have started), the tank explodes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzpUVtVUBTI

[Lusche]

Ok.  so what happens if my round hits the target at 90 degrees precisely?

Should be about impossible. Precisely 90 degrees = round flying exactly parallel to the armor surface. (0 degrees would be hitting the armor at a right angle)

[bcadoo]

Should be about impossible. Precisely 90 degrees = round flying exactly parallel to the armor surface. (0 degrees would be hitting the armor at a right angle)

Maybe in computer math.....but not in the real world.

[Lusche]

Maybe in computer math.....but not in the real world.

It's a matter of definition.
In historical armor penetration tests, striking the surface at a right angle was defined as 0 degrees most of the time. Most tables work that way. See this table for example

[Yeager]

It's a matter of definition.
In historical armor penetration tests, striking the surface at a right angle was defined as 0 degrees most of the time. Most tables work that way. See this table for example

That's what confused me.  I am straight about it now.  Thanks. 

Still wonder how a round could penetrate armor plate and do zero damage though.  Someone posted a video in a different thread I think, about the WW2OL GV physics model and damage model.  Man, I wish HTC would go to that level of detail.  The GV game is very popular in AH but lacks a great deal of believability, for me at least.  As an example, when you hit a bush and your PNZR flips over.  Then flips over again....and again.....and then flips upright and off you go.

[grumpy37]

That's what confused me.  I am straight about it now.  Thanks.  

The GV game is very popular in AH but lacks a great deal of believability, for me at least.  As an example, when you hit a bush and your PNZR flips over.  Then flips over again....and again.....and then flips upright and off you go.

[/b][/b]

The kills from 2500 yards on a regular basis is what gets me the most.  Real life tank battle were 1000 yards or less.  Rounds at over 500 yards didnt even tickle the Tigers....

Also shells not going threw trees or shrubs....  Why is that...

[hitech]

That's what confused me.  I am straight about it now.  Thanks. 

Still wonder how a round could penetrate armor plate and do zero damage though.  Someone posted a video in a different thread I think, about the WW2OL GV physics model and damage model.  Man, I wish HTC would go to that level of detail.  The GV game is very popular in AH but lacks a great deal of believability, for me at least.  As an example, when you hit a bush and your PNZR flips over.  Then flips over again....and again.....and then flips upright and off you go.

Yeager do not confuse Hype and implementation, we use the same type of detail as they do. As far as no damage, if you penetrate an armor plate do not hit anything and hit another piece of armor. Other then a hole in the armor is any damage done?

HiTech

[Lusche]

As far as no damage, if you penetrate an armor plate do not hit anything and hit another piece of armor. Other then a hole in the armor is any damage done?

Isn't the HE charge of the AP shell going off inside the tank modeled? Then the AP round would not have to hit anything specific to do a lot of damage to crewmen...

[Dragon]

We could really use a pie chart showing what percentages of a tank can be pierced with an AP round and not hit any vital parts or crewmen vs what percentage causes damage or death.

I can't see this:

if you penetrate an armor plate do not hit anything and hit another piece of armor. Other then a hole in the armor is any damage done?

HiTech

being a very high percentile.

[Raptor]

Still wonder how a round could penetrate armor plate and do zero damage though.

Think about the M3 and M16

[AWwrgwy]

Isn't the HE charge of the AP shell going off inside the tank modeled? Then the AP round would not have to hit anything specific to do a lot of damage to crewmen...

AP has an HE charge? 

I'll research it later.

Thanks.


wrongway

[Bruv119]

far too much talk of penetration starts the mind wandering.   

[OOZ662]

far too much talk of penetration starts the mind wandering.   

Only to those who feel like derailing a thread.

Someone posted a video in a different thread I think, about the WW2OL GV physics model and damage model.

That was me in the first reply to this thread. Starting to wonder how many ignore lists I'm on.

Also shells not going threw trees or shrubs....  Why is that...

Don't think of it as a tree or a shrub. It's merely meant to be cover.

AP has an HE charge?

APBC (Armor Piercing Ballistic Cap) Round, which was the popular round of the time I believe. At least it was for the Tiger.



1 Light weight ballistic cap
2 Steel alloy piercing shell
3 Desensitized bursting charge (TNT, Trinitrophenol, RDX...)
4 Fuse (set with delay to explode inside the target)
5 Bourrelet (front) and driving band (rear)

Basically, the blue piece is made of a light, relatively soft metal formed into a very aerodynamic shape to help the round fly. On impact, it "squishes" and melts away and the white impacts the armor. This piece is generally blunted so as to resist the effects of sloped armor trying to shrug off the shell. Once through, the fuse set off the HE charge in the rear.
APCR (Armor Piercing Composite Rigid, also called HVAP by the Americans) was also used, but due to being lighter it was less effective at range.

It's interesting to me that back then, you didn't want the part of the shell that was to do the piercing to be all that pointy. Most would imagine emulating an arrow or spear. In reality, it was simply a contest of a big heavy slug trying to literally punch its way through the armor with sheer force. Now-a-days we've got better metals and whatnot, allowing our tanks to use sabot AP rounds which literally are metal arrows but don't contain a bursting charge.

[Lusche]

AP has an HE charge?  

I'll research it later.

Thanks.

The most common AP round for the Tiger was the PzGr 39. A APCBC projectile with ~60g explosive filling, which is about half the amount of a German egg handgrenade.. but exploding ina very confined space.