The official AvA description on the events website

[Dawger]

The Axis versus Allies arena, (AvA) is set up for historical gameplay. This is a two sided arena, a limited plane set, with reduced radar and icon ranges. Setups usually change every Friday. The AVA staff will rotate between theatres of operations and time frames. You will set setup’s from the Battle of Britain in 1940 to a 1945 setup in Japan. Eastern and Western Europe, Mediterranean, North Africa, and throughout the Pacific are theatres used. 
 
Unlike the Main Arena’s field capture is not the focus, but rather fair and balanced aircraft engagements. Vulching is frowned upon as is spawn camping. All players are expected to behave in a polite and chivalrous manner. Rude heckling and insulting behavior will not be tolerated by any AvA staff.
 
Feel free to post any questions you may have in the AvA forum.
 
Happy Hunting!
 
Sincerely,
 
AvA Staff 

The proposed setup for this week does not fit this description.

http://ahevents.org/misc/axis-vs-allied-arena-information.html

Maybe it needs to be changed

[Chilli]

I don't see your point.  Are you suggesting false advertising?  I am not a lawyer but I don't think the Dream Team could win that case for ya. 

Now is the time for us to calm down and think before we let too much of our imaginations go wild.  Nothing we could ever do would hold a candle to the actual events in history, where brave men fought and made sacrifices. 

Now, as far as contributions to developing something better, I could use some DEM files, or historical accounts / books / articles, etc.  It was always refreshing to hear players referring to a specific book and the information within.  That sort of thing is what you would hope to find on a forum about historical combat gameplay.

[Dawger]

Show me how Tank Warz fits into the official description of the AvA and I'll concede your point.

[gyrene81]

It's 2 sided...using aircraft and vehicles within Aces High that were active in military operations between 1940 -1945...there isn't anything in it that doesn't have to do with WWII.

Two bit ambulance chaser could win that one in court. 

[Dawger]

Starting May 28, 2010 I will be running tank warz. This is a NON-historical setup using the ARDEN map. All bases but 4 will be set to the 3d chess piece. you will have to capture your way through it using whatever means at your disposal.

The Axis versus Allies arena, (AvA) is set up for historical gameplay.

It's 2 sided...using aircraft and vehicles within Aces High that were active in military operations between 1940 -1945...there isn't anything in it that doesn't have to do with WWII.

There isn't anything in any other AH arena that doesn't have to do with WWII. That means all of AH is "historical gameplay" using your definition.

[gyrene81]

There isn't anything in any other AH arena that doesn't have to do with WWII. That means all of AH is "historical gameplay" using your definition.

Depends on your definition of "historical gameplay"...and my law professor friend is getting a nice laugh from your tirades. Jaeger used the words "non-historical" to not mislead anyone into thinking the setup is based on any actual documented WWII history...in fact setups that are labeled as historical, are in themselves misleading. Though loosely based on some historical event, any substitutions in equipment or location nullify the historical accuracy...as does any "balancing" between the number of players taking part in the reenactment.

The terrain being used by Jaeger is a reproduction of a geographical area in Europe that was the subject of WWII military encounters between several nations...the aircraft and vehicles being allowed are based on WWII military equipment historically used by the nations that were at war between 1939 and 1945...there are two sides, one of which represents the faction formerly known as "Allies" and the other represents the faction formerly known as "Axis" and they are only allowed to use aircraft and vehicles which were historically used by the faction they represent, in this case it's U.S.A. and Britain vs Germany...which is historically correct for the military actions in Western Europe during the time period.


Based on the description you quoted, the Tank Warz setup fits within that scope. Now whether or not you choose to comprehend that is up to you. Would it make you feel better if he renamed it something like "Ardennes Armored Action"?

[TheBug]

See Rule #4

[Dawger]

See Rule #4

[Dawger]

Would it make you feel better if he renamed it something like "Ardennes Armored Action"?

Adding ground attack aircraft and medium bombers for both sides would make it reasonably resemble something historic.

I once wrote a real time Operation Market Garden that included all of the historical air and ground units attacking the historic bridges. Of course most of the ground units were AI and the paratroopers all jumped out of AI airplanes but players on both sides could spawn in near the moving tank columns and fight it out with AI human opponents as the British column moved to the paratroopers on the ground. Fighters/bombers could spawn in near the formations of C-47's and later resupply formations of B24's out over the channel and escort then to their drop zones and back. The event lasted 3 days and included periods of night time.

It was quite a hoot and pretty popular. I'm probably just pining for days past in a galaxy far, far away.

You and your lawyer friend can keep laughing.

[gyrene81]

But my biggest issue with the whole thing isn't the setup itself. It is the lack of a published schedule for the AvA. I would be far less peeved about the setup if there was a schedule posted at least a month in advance so I could plan accordingly. The AvA seems far too willy-nilly and a few days notice for "tAnKZ wArrrrZZ" just adds fuel to the fire.

Now that I wholeheartedly agree with...there is a schedule but it's not set in stone for anything other than it's someone's turn to do a setup.

The available terrains aren't conducive to air/land war setups except in special events. Take a look at the strat maps that are available.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Terrains_for_Special_Events

Then download all of the terrains HTC has posted and look through each one...make sure you look at the vehicle spawns and spacing between the bases...then consider how to make it "fun" for 5 to 15 people that want to do different things every day for a week then consider that we want to make it inviting to others as well who may or may not be "super ace 1337 dogfighters". We're not talking 50-100 people on a regular basis...but if we do something to the exclusion of just one group of people, there never will be 50-100 people in the AvA, because sure as poop...someone is going to be pissed that we didn't include something they want to do...and they go to the MAs.

[captain1ma]

1. bombers will be added so that i can have a bombing run on Wednesday-- see disclaimer at bottom of posted page. they will be at out-lying bases so as not to interfere with the tanks.

2. not to knock the idea, but even the FSO doesn't post setups more then 2 months in advance, why should the AVA?

3. the idea is tank battles with limited air interference on the arden map. there will be 2 fighters capable of carrying bombs. 500lbs. each. this will maybe damage, but not kill a tank. fighters will be able to hit tanks, and have dogfights if they so desire. each side has its own (axis or allies repectively) tanks. c47's will be limited so that base capture can happen, but not be over run. fighters out of Vbases will allow for defense of a base in conjunction with tanks, this will limit shutting down a base totally.

Maybe the name needs improvement, but it is what it is. its a WW2 battle that never happened. That makes it non-historical. It uses a plane that wasn't in that theater, that makes it non-historical. Other then that, it still historical vehicles and historical planes in a historical area, doing battle. call it what you want.

[Dawger]

We're not talking 50-100 people on a regular basis...but if we do something to the exclusion of just one group of people, there never will be 50-100 people in the AvA, because sure as poop...someone is going to be pissed that we didn't include something they want to do...and they go to the MAs.

Then why are you arguing with me? The proposed setup for next week is exclusionary. There are fighters that can't really be effective in ground attack and there are ground vehicles.

That setup both ignores the history in the ETO and excludes anyone who may desire to drop some bombs on a GV driven by a human or other ground target.

Looks to me like this is a setup aimed at a very specific group instead of one trying to appeal to a wider audience.

[Dawger]

1. bombers will be added so that i can have a bombing run on Wednesday-- see disclaimer at bottom of posted page. they will be at out-lying bases so as not to interfere with the tanks.

Nice to have the ability to adjust the arena to your own personal desire. Too bad the rest of us don't.

2. not to knock the idea, but even the FSO doesn't post setups more then 2 months in advance, why should the AVA?

Aim High, brother.

FSO is an event that includes hundreds of players from tens of squadrons all of which must be coordinated and they manage to post a schedule 2 months in advance.

AvA is a 24/7 arena requiring minimal planning and setup that considers 30 players an achievement and it manages to post a schedule 4 days in advance

3. the idea is tank battles with limited air interference on the arden map. there will be 2 fighters capable of carrying bombs. 500lbs. each. this will maybe damage, but not kill a tank. fighters will be able to hit tanks, and have dogfights if they so desire. each side has its own (axis or allies repectively) tanks. c47's will be limited so that base capture can happen, but not be over run. fighters out of Vbases will allow for defense of a base in conjunction with tanks, this will limit shutting down a base totally.

So the purpose is to protect those who wish a private tank playground for a week without having to worry about airplanes. You would be better served by calling it the Battle of the Bulge and claiming the weather is so bad no airplanes could fly and remove all the airplanes. Then I really couldn't say squat about the history.

[Wolfie]

1. bombers will be added so that i can have a bombing run on Wednesday-- see disclaimer at bottom of posted page. they will be at out-lying bases so as not to interfere with the tanks.

Speaks for itself.

2. not to knock the idea, but even the FSO doesn't post setups more then 2 months in advance, why should the AVA?

Wrong again.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,283978.0.html

[TheBug]

See Rule #4