1 Squadron RAAF Mossie

[FTJR]

Hi Guys,

I managed to go away just as the new mossie was released, I followed Greebo's SEA mossie thread, and Krusty's  Silver vs Bare Metal thread as well.  While this is a redo of the L-NA, im considering going for A-NA as I have better photo's. Anyway, suggestions appreciated.

[oboe]

My first impression was that this was a bare metal skin rather than silver-painted, so perhaps the specularity in the material.txt file is a bit high?

For details, I like to see a little shadow between spinner and the engine nacelle - maybe a touch of grime here as well.   I also think shadowing along the hinges of control surfaces looks good - I've been using one line of shadow along the leading edge of the control surface followed immediately by another line of glare, to try to give the impression of a curved surface.

Were the Mossie's rudder, ailerons, and elevators fabric-convered or metal?  If fabric, you could enhance the ribbed structure in these areas (I see it on the rudder but not on the elevators or ailerons).

Overall, I think it's a real stand-out skin for the Mossie-- maybe a tad clean (exhaust stack & gun muzzle dirt/grime), but its hard to show dirt/grime on a shiny bird effectively because the dirt/grime gets the same specularity value as the skin.   It does make me want to get in and fly it though!

<S> and welcome back!

[FTJR]

Hi Oboe,

Yes it does look more metal than it should, there is dirt there, only after posting did I realise its a bit too distant for detail, and I have the lines turned down low.

Im pretty sure the control surfaces are all metal, but I stand to be corrected, all the photo's i have show a bit of ribbing on the rudder, but none (that I can see) on the elevators.

Thanks for the input.

[Greebo]

Nice job FTJR.  

The silver RAAF Mossies probably didn't have enough time to get really dirty in the time they were used in combat, but maybe a bit exhaust dirt could be added. Also some oil below the nacelles (the Merlin was quite a leaky engine) and some gun dirt if its not already there.

The elevators and ailerons were metal skinned on the Mosquito, the flaps were plywood and only the rudder was fabric covered.

Below is the material file I used on my silver 82 Sqn Mossie, in real life this aircraft would probably have been a bit dirtier than yours though. So you would probably want a higher specularity value than mine.

0.302,0.302,0.302,Ambient
0.439,0.439,0.439,Diffuse
0.000,0.000,0.000,Emissive
0.475,0.471,0.465,Specular
8.200,Power

[Krusty]

Going along with the materials.txt comments, I'd ask if you can do a version with some subtle highlights painted on, and toning the reflective shine in the materials.txt down a bit.

I'm a novice with this silver paint surface coloring, but something looks a tad off. Might be the "too shiny" aspect plus the lack of little shadows/lines along certain areas as mentioned already.

[lyric1]

 

[FTJR]

Hi Greebo,

Thanks for the input, as it happens my material file is identical to yours with the exception that the specular is .567, .536, .490

As I mentioned in the post to Oboe, most of the grime is there, just getting the correct combination of it is the trick which im not yet able perform.

Anyway an update

[FTJR]

Going along with the materials.txt comments, I'd ask if you can do a version with some subtle highlights painted on, and toning the reflective shine in the materials.txt down a bit.

I'm a novice with this silver paint surface coloring, but something looks a tad off. Might be the "too shiny" aspect plus the lack of little shadows/lines along certain areas as mentioned already.

Hi Krusty,

I know what you're asking, I just dont know if I can achieve it, I turned up the panel lines in response to the earlier posts, is that helpful? To the material, that is untouched just at the moment.

[Krusty]

I have noticed in my recent P-47N attempts and from my past B-17G attempts that when you monkey with the materials.txt file you can really wash out a lot of the weathering detail. I started out using the specularity, then ended up toning it way down and all the details started coming back out.

As an experiment (just for yourself, if you like), try this materials.txt:

0.400,0.400,0.400,Ambient
0.600,0.600,0.600,Diffuse
0.000,0.000,0.000,Emissive
0.700,0.700,0.700,Specular
25,Power

[edit: that's my recent p-47n values]

And compare how the details/weathering change. I think overall that power value on the last line (at least, in my fiddling and playing around) tended to add too much shine, so I bumped the number up and up (thus reducing the shine to lower and lower levels).

If none of that helps, oh well, I gave it a shot. New territory for me

Definitely watching this skin's progress with interest.

[Plazus]

I like what I see so far! My suggestions: add some more oil streaks near the exhaust pipes from both sides of the engine nacelles. I would also lightly darken the gun smoke soot next to the 20mm guns on the fuselage. Also, what do you suppose if you were to darken the gray paint just a little bit? Might that give it a more "silver" appearance? Would it tone down the illusion of the specularity? Just food for thought.

[FTJR]

Ok this is a quick sample of choices,  L_NA is unaltered from earlier, A_NA is the same but using Krusty's material file suggestion, the naked one is a slightly different mix of colours using L_NA's material file.

Krusty, just so you know, i am using Greebo's 82 squadron mossie as target to shoot for.

Plazus thanks for the suggestions, the naked mossie is an attempt to answer your question about giving a more silver appearance.

sorry the mash up of the photo's is an attempt to save space and make it easier to compare, but its ugly. plus i've added a photo of A_NA

[oboe]

Nice photos - am I seeing a hint of ribbing on the left aileron in the lower right pic?

Might be a nice touch to have some panel lines darker than others - flaps, for example, and where the engine is mounted into wing look a little darker in the pics...

[FTJR]

Hi Oboe,

Re the ribbing, I have a copy of a walkaround, and it shows no ribbingon the aileron, and to be honest I cant see it on the photo's ( but my eyes are bad). I agree on the panel lines, and am working on it.

JR.

[FTJR]

Ok, last one for the day,

Updated the grime, exhaust stains, and defined some panel lines.

Played with the material file

[Krusty]

Seeing the side-by-side screenshots, it appears my suggested materials values weren't much different. Oh well, it was worth a shot. 


I think you're getting close to those pictures in that they are silver but not overly shiny/reflective. There aren't as many specular highlights on the surface of the plane. Does it pick up shine when the light hits it at other angles? I can see it off the nose and leading edges, but not much else. Can't tell if that's the materials values or just the angle of the sun.

If so, I think you've hit a decent balance. If not, might suggest just lowering the "power" value just a couple of numbers (lower value = more highlights/reflectivity).

My next suggestion is a little long, but simple in theory.

Copy your panel lines layer(s). Straight-up duplicate them so you have 2. Select the entire layer (i.e. "select all"). Using whatever selection tool you like, DESELECT the areas of panel line that run the outer borders of the flaps, ailerons, rudder, elevators, and cockpit hatch. [Edit: Might include gear doors and bomb bay doors as well?] Now you have everything BUT them selected. Press the delete/clear key.

Now you have just created a layer that brings out specific panel lines, and you can raise/lower as needed. Leave it on top of previous layer(s) and export the skin again.

To sum up, it makes the areas where there would be noticable gaps more visible, but without ruining your previous panel lines efforts.