The effect of icons on ACM?

[humble]

I've been flying in the AvA as much as possible (if numbers/balance are OK) and am amazed at the effect the lack of icons appears to have on ACM. At some basic level everything in "Shaw" as well as all of the historical stories makes so much more sense. Here's a short clip, my G940 "fritzed" mid stream but I was just about forced off the perch already by then. Nothing special ACM wise but I'm amazed just how sweet the 38 becomes in a world without icons and how well laid out the cockpit is specific to lines of sight
 http://beachheadcrm.info/snaphook/lifeintheAvA.ahf

You may have to cycle the icons once to turn the off...

[Lepape2]

Yeah, seems like hopeless fights are still survivable (with some luck at least). You can sometimes magically extend away like no one ever saw you. In fights like this one in SEC about 2 weeks ago (Icon range is less than 1k):

http://www.mediafire.com/file/1nzwnqd0jey/110_VS_odds_SEC.ahf
After the 1st kill, I was sure that returning back for more would have killed me so I stayed and played it safe.

I think the rides that are spotted at Icon Range of 6.0k are regarded as a potential targets right away (especially if they are an easy large/slow prey) whereas you have the choice to engage or not at your own risk without the Icons (that is if you spotted the distant shape already). It makes everyone less prone to fight more than 3-4 cons at the same time (which is barely manageable but possible).
I laugh at the fact that those two films show exactly the opposite though   . Just don't jump the gun too quickly on a seemingly lone con, for there might be more lurking around.

[humble]

My thoughts are more specific to the fight itself. Tactics and subtleties that seemed awful effective based on historical accounts are less effective here IMO. Once you remove the icon for some reason those same things work surprisingly well.

[Lepape2]

Is it just because of the fact you cannot spot a con earlier or the fact you have to guess the range and closure rate of those?

[humble]

Actually you can spot cons at the same range regardless. No question that you don't have the artificial aids to judge closure and range shift. A few of the things I noticed are the effectiveness of skids (where you cross control the plane) and subtle variations of angle off on defense. Also planes that aggravated me a bit view wise with icons all of a sudden are tremendous without where you really need to manage views. The 38 is very very effective in the sense that views are outstanding in out of plane maneuvering...it's very possible to manage views and still have fundementally correct options. Once you lost a few of those 109 skins down in the dirt they were ghosts...

[ink]

Actually you can spot cons at the same range regardless. No question that you don't have the artificial aids to judge closure and range shift. A few of the things I noticed are the effectiveness of skids (where you cross control the plane) and subtle variations of angle off on defense. Also planes that aggravated me a bit view wise with icons all of a sudden are tremendous without where you really need to manage views. The 38 is very very effective in the sense that views are outstanding in out of plane maneuvering...it's very possible to manage views and still have fundementally correct options. Once you lost a few of those 109 skins down in the dirt they were ghosts...

That to me is why Icons off are much more realistic, it is so much harder to tract a con, during an engagement.

[jimson]

That to me is why Icons off are much more realistic, it is so much harder to tract a con, during an engagement.

LOL, get ready for all of those who claim big red icons compensate for the reduced visibility range on a rendered computer screen vs real life and is actually more realistic.

I never cared whether no enemy icons is actually more realistic or not, but it certainly seems that way, is more enjoyable and immersive to me and the AvA is the only place I fly now.

[BrownBaron]

camo'ed skins play an actual role with out icons, the only complaint I have is that bare metal planes disappear without a telltale glint of exposed metal..

[cactuskooler]

I remember reading the "One vs Many" section in Shaw's book thinking, "This all makes sense but doesn't apply to AH". With icons off a lot more of those tactics come into play. Something like attacking out of the Sun is actually useful.

[ink]

LOL, get ready for all of those who claim big red icons compensate for the reduced visibility range on a rendered computer screen vs real life and is actually more realistic.

I never cared whether no enemy icons is actually more realistic or not, but it certainly seems that way, is more enjoyable and immersive to me and the AvA is the only place I fly now.

ya well I have a small monitor and I can see the dots quite easy, I can also see that icons do help at a distance to identify the plane in AH like it would be in RL, but once the con is in range the icon should disappear so as to not make it to easy to follow, also Icons on, make it virtually imposable to be snuck up on, which we all know was a major way most pilots got there killz, Icons on take that element right out of the picture.

camo'ed skins play an actual role with out icons, the only complaint I have is that bare metal planes disappear without a telltale glint of exposed metal..

that's why planes were painted the way they were,  to disappear in the sky and the ground, most ww2 planes I don't think would "glint".

[jimson]

I can also see that icons do help at a distance to identify the plane in AH like it would be in RL, but once the con is in range the icon should disappear

That would probably be ideal, unfortunately the settings seem to work in the reverse.

The settings AvA uses may be the best compromise, with friendly icons on at a limited distance, when you close within real life ID range of a bogie friendly icons show.

If not, you know it's a bandit.

[Oldman731]

Something like attacking out of the Sun is actually useful.

...or climbing into it, if you're often being chased...

- oldman

[hlbly]

ya well I have a small monitor and I can see the dots quite easy, I can also see that icons do help at a distance to identify the plane in AH like it would be in RL, but once the con is in range the icon should disappear so as to not make it to easy to follow, also Icons on, make it virtually imposable to be snuck up on, which we all know was a major way most pilots got there killz, Icons on take that element right out of the picture.

that's why planes were painted the way they were,  to disappear in the sky and the ground, most ww2 planes I don't think would "glint".

Actually bro they did glint quite a bit .Off of canopys or any part of the plane that had perspex . off of bare metal where paint had weathered away . Off of bare unpainted airframes . Even off of a prop disc .While big efforts were made to reduce this with matte paints etc. There was one place that ground crew made a huge effort to keep very shiny . The canopy . A black speck had the same result it does here .

[ink]

Actually bro they did glint quite a bit .Off of canopys or any part of the plane that had perspex . off of bare metal where paint had weathered away . Off of bare unpainted airframes . Even off of a prop disc .While big efforts were made to reduce this with matte paints etc. There was one place that ground crew made a huge effort to keep very shiny . The canopy . A black speck had the same result it does here .

so.....how come in wings of prey the canopy is so dirty........................ .........................

[Krusty]

Because Oleg has no clue what he's doing?