The tater chucker get nerfed?

[BrownBaron]

I don't think the problem lies with the damage models of these aircraft, but rather something to do with the tater. I fly the K4 almost exclusively, and I'm not getting the same results I've got against the same enemies with similar conditions. Somethings up.

[BillyD]

I don't think the problem lies with the damage models of these aircraft, but rather something to do with the tater. I fly the K4 almost exclusively, and I'm not getting the same results I've got against the same enemies with similar conditions. Somethings up.

mm hmm yup. Luftwhine is more like Luftwhatthef@#k.


Hitech :

...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!

Luftwhiners:

Damn it!... He's using the Chewbacca defense!

Hitech:

Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a defending a code of a cartoon MK108 hit, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.


<G>

[Karnak]

Mossie is made of wood, those are HE rounds. Could be very possible that the skin is too soft to make the rounds explode. Mossie were renowned at being able to take BIG hits and coming home IRL

No, the skin of a Mossie was most definitely enough to cause the German rounds to explode.  The difference is in the nature of plywood as compared to aluminum.  Plywood doesn't tear, aluminum does, so all you get with an HE hit on the Mossie is damage caused by the immediate explosion but on aluminum the skin tears off in much larger sections.  That isn't to say that the immediate area around the hit won't be catastrophic, just that wooden skins took battle damage better.

The same is true of the spar.  The Mossie's wooden spar is physically much larger than an aluminum spar would be for the same strength factors, so an equal sized chunk taken out of it reduces the actual strength of the spar by less.  In other words, 13mm out of a 200mm spar is a lower percentage than 13mm out of a 100mm spar.


Here is a photo of that Mosquito PR.Mk XVI that was hit by 2-4 30mm rounds from an Me262.  You can see how the skin on the left horizontal stabilizer broke instead of tore:

[BrownBaron]

No, the skin of a Mossie was most definitely enough to cause the German rounds to explode.  The difference is in the nature of plywood as compared to aluminum.  Plywood doesn't tear, aluminum does, so all you get with an HE hit on the Mossie is damage caused by the immediate explosion but on aluminum the skin tears off in much larger sections.  That isn't to say that the immediate area around the hit won't be catastrophic, just that wooden skins took battle damage better.

The same is true of the spar.  The Mossie's wooden spar is physically much larger than an aluminum spar would be for the same strength factors, so an equal sized chunk taken out of it reduces the actual strength of the spar by less.  In other words, 13mm out of a 200mm spar is a lower percentage than 13mm out of a 100mm spar.


Here is a photo of that Mosquito PR.Mk XVI that was hit by 2-4 30mm rounds from an Me262.  You can see how the skin on the left horizontal stabilizer broke instead of tore:
(Image removed from quote.)

Uhmmm...hijack?

[Karnak]

Uhmmm...hijack?

Kinda.  I was trying to debunk some of the ideas posted in this thread since the target being shot was a Mosquito.  Wrong ideas have ranged from "common sense says plywood would be more vulnerable" to "the wooden skin was too soft to cause the shells to explode" and I am just trying to give more accurate information.

HiTech said what he needs and that there was no intentional change to the 30mm or P-51.

[Ardy123]

here are some more films of it happening

http://www.mediafire.com/file/my2j45mdt3e/dud-tator-clip.ahf
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ynmwznymayi/dud-tator-clip2.ahf

Also, I have started a thread where we could post your films of this issue to help HTC with it.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,290353.0.html

[JunkyII]

Kinda.  I was trying to debunk some of the ideas posted in this thread since the target being shot was a Mosquito.  Wrong ideas have ranged from "common sense says plywood would be more vulnerable" to "the wooden skin was too soft to cause the shells to explode" and I am just trying to give more accurate information.

HiTech said what he needs and that there was no intentional change to the 30mm or P-51.

Your Mossie is fine, Hitech even said it was.

[Kazaa]

No, the skin of a Mossie was most definitely enough to cause the German rounds to explode.  The difference is in the nature of plywood as compared to aluminum.  Plywood doesn't tear, aluminum does, so all you get with an HE hit on the Mossie is damage caused by the immediate explosion but on aluminum the skin tears off in much larger sections.  That isn't to say that the immediate area around the hit won't be catastrophic, just that wooden skins took battle damage better.

The same is true of the spar.  The Mossie's wooden spar is physically much larger than an aluminum spar would be for the same strength factors, so an equal sized chunk taken out of it reduces the actual strength of the spar by less.  In other words, 13mm out of a 200mm spar is a lower percentage than 13mm out of a 100mm spar.


Here is a photo of that Mosquito PR.Mk XVI that was hit by 2-4 30mm rounds from an Me262.  You can see how the skin on the left horizontal stabilizer broke instead of tore:
(Image removed from quote.)

If the mossie was as durable in combat as the info posted above. Why does Aces High's version fall apart instantaneously from a couple of 20mm rounds, but can take 4 30mm rounds?

[LLogann]

Screw that Karnak, I find no hijack at all.  We are talking about the 30mm and you are giving us an example that goes straight to the point of it!!!  You Rock Man!

Kinda.  I was trying to debunk some of the ideas posted in this thread since the target being shot was a Mosquito.  Wrong ideas have ranged from "common sense says plywood would be more vulnerable" to "the wooden skin was too soft to cause the shells to explode" and I am just trying to give more accurate information.

HiTech said what he needs and that there was no intentional change to the 30mm or P-51.

And Kazaa, please give us an example of 20's rocking it out but 30's doing little.  Plus... Not sure if Karnak already pointed this out but there is a huge density difference between a Mossie and say.... almost any other plane in the game.  Wood might be the reason that the Mossie has "cannon survivability" simply because some of those HE rounds on impact do not detonate due to the lack of target density.  

Or..........  Am I crazy?

EDIT:  Actually it seems Karnak will argue against my density theory.........   

[fbWldcat]

Does anyone know if the same effect is for the 37mm and 40mm guns? If it is simply damage modelling and caused by the wooden frame, then the same problem should persist with the 20, 37 and 40mm cannons, correct?

[LLogann]

Actually now, that makes me think a different way.  As Kazaa states, the 20's rip up the Mossie even though the 30's don't.  Let's take the Mossie out and just look at the diameter.  What if the larger round, at impact, causes a larger rupture of surface faster, thus not allowing the pressure detonator to ignite?

Does anyone know if the same effect is for the 37mm and 40mm guns? If it is simply damage modelling and caused by the wooden frame, then the same problem should persist with the 20, 37 and 40mm cannons, correct?

[321BAR]

Actually now, that makes me think a different way.  As Kazaa states, the 20's rip up the Mossie even though the 30's don't.  Let's take the Mossie out and just look at the diameter.  What if the larger round, at impact, causes a larger rupture of surface faster, thus not allowing the pressure detonator to ignite?

i've been thinking since my last post...what if the 20mm is doing more damage because more rounds are hitting the target than the 30mm tater nut? (yes. i did just use a that 70s show quote ) yeah the 30mm does huge damage but if only one hits the target at a certain speed and angle maybe it won't do the correct damage to rip a wing off compared to 3 20mm rounds that strike in the same time one 30mm does?

[gyrene81]

The 30mm HE from the Mk108 had a thin shell on it designed for concussion damage with thin shrapnel for physical damage, like a hand grenade, very effective against light metal, not so effective against plywood.

The 20mm HE from the MG 151/20 had the same structural characteristics as the 30mm, but they were higher velocity. The higher velocity and faster firing rate of the MG151/20 makes it a bit more deadly just due to the amount of firepower you can put on target.

. If you guys have watched any vintage gun cam footage, you can see where the machine guns are fired more than the 20 or 30 mm, and the cannon rounds are pretty much the coup de grace. The real life destructive power from the combination of 13mm FMJ ball ammo and 20mm or 30mm HE rounds is pretty awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZOb0vx9y9I&feature=PlayList&p=E2C1F46F42449212&playnext_from=PL&index=5

[hitech]

See link for some explanations.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,290353.0.html

Short version no problem with 30mm, new damage system problem, plus some isolated plane problems we will search all planes for the same issue.

And to short circuit next qustion/statement/luftwhine.

Because they normally take out a component in 1 hit, hence it is very noticeable when something is wrong.


HiTech

[grizz441]

See link for some explanations.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,290353.0.html

Short version no problem with 30mm, new damage system problem, plus some isolated plane problems we will search all planes for the same issue.

And to short circuit next qustion/statement/luftwhine.

Because they normally take out a component in 1 hit, hence it is very noticeable when something is wrong.


HiTech

Thanks for the update, and the fixes in works.