The tater chucker get nerfed?

[grizz441]

You would also not get the kill 1 out of 7 times with the 50 cals, in fact I could set up a case where if 1 out of 7 was duds the 30 would get 6 out of 7 kills in the same setups, where the 1 dud would make the 50 Cals never get a kill in any of the 7 planes.
HiTech

Not really, because the gun solution that you work in a 50 caliber aircraft is lag pursuit, essentially you fire until you see a critical component fall off of your bad guy's airplane.  So if your stream is dud free, then the wing might fall off slightly sooner before you release the trigger.  Or, if it is dud rich, you will have to hold down the trigger slightly longer until the wing falls off.  Either way, you are in control of when the bad guy dies. 

Proper 30mm aiming does not have this luxury.  With the 30mm, you put all your eggs into "One Tater Basket".  If your tater is a dud, you can't correct it, it's too late, you have to set up another shot, which takes more time, and more ammo, which is very limited to begin with.

I think the gap that stands between our ideas, is my assumption that a 50 caliber a/c and a 30mm a/c set up different angles for gun solutions.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter, since you guys are fixing it.  So even if I am delusional in my perception that german iron is affected more greatly, I won't have to luftwhine and post films anymore.   

[BiPoLaR]

Not really, because the gun solution that you work in a 50 caliber aircraft is lag pursuit, essentially you fire until you see a critical component fall off of your bad guy's airplane.  So if your stream is dud free, then the wing might fall off slightly sooner before you release the trigger.  Or, if it is dud rich, you will have to hold down the trigger slightly longer until the wing falls off.  Either way, you are in control of when the bad guy dies. 

Proper 30mm aiming does not have this luxury.  With the 30mm, you put all your eggs into "One Tater Basket".  If your tater is a dud, you can't correct it, it's too late, you have to set up another shot, which takes more time, and more ammo, which is very limited to begin with.

I think the gap that stands between our ideas, is my assumption that a 50 caliber a/c and a 30mm a/c set up different angles for gun solutions.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter, since you guys are fixing it.  So even if I am delusional in my perception that german iron is affected more greatly, I won't have to luftwhine and post films anymore.   

i agree with you 100%. but i think you should just give up

[grizz441]

i agree with you 100%. but i think you should just give up

I've made my points.  Now I just want to know how many KRUSTYs Hitech thinks my presentation deserves.   

[TonyJoey]

Not really, because the gun solution that you work in a 50 caliber aircraft is lag pursuit, essentially you fire until you see a critical component fall off of your bad guy's airplane.

But not every gun solution is a lag pursuit. Plenty of times I've had crossing shots where a few "duds" would may have been the coup de grace to a major part, or would have killed the pilot. While the effect is not as visible in such planes, it is there.

[grizz441]

But not every gun solution is a lag pursuit. Plenty of times I've had crossing shots where a few "duds" would may have been the coup de grace to a major part, or would have killed the pilot. While the effect is not as visible in such planes, it is there.

Exceptions to the norm, just as some tater gun solutions are lag pursuit.

[AWwrgwy]

I don't think HiTech is getting the idea that with only 65 rounds of ammunition available having to use 10% to get a kill has a more adverse effect on it's fighting ability than having to use 10% of 2000 rounds.

3 second burst Mk108 30mm at 650 rpm = 32.5 rounds out of 65 available - 50%
3 second burst M2 .50 cal at 850 rpm= 42.5 x6 = 255 out of 1880 available - 13.56% <--- 6 gun P-51D

What Grizz is trying to say is even simpler than that. 

Say if 10% of rounds are "duds" then one in ten available killing opportunites, the one shot tater kill, would not work. 

With .50s in the same situation, say you actually hit with 100 rounds when you fire, 10 .50 cal rounds would be "duds".  This would really have little if any affect on a kill with .50s.

However, since it is a damage model issue and not a "dud" issue, the point is moot.


wrongway

[hitech]

I don't think HiTech is getting the idea that with only 65 rounds of ammunition available having to use 10% to get a kill has a more adverse effect on it's fighting ability than having to use 10% of 2000 rounds.

3 second burst Mk108 30mm at 650 rpm = 32.5 rounds out of 65 available - 50%
3 second burst M2 .50 cal at 850 rpm= 42.5 x6 = 255 out of 1880 available - 13.56% <--- 6 gun P-51D

Losing 10% effects the fighting ability of both equally. I.E. they loose 10% of there killing power. Your 50 and 13 % comparison is really showing nothing more then a p51 has more fire time then the mk108. This is true with our without a bug.

HiTech

[2bighorn]

It's not the total ammo, it's the one which hits.

In case of German 30mm, a single round is often the only hit, in case of a dud, you'd get 100% failure.
With 50cal you'll hit often with few hundred rounds, duds would represent small percentage.

That's what it is...

[mechanic]

which is what i said over a year ago in another 30mm whine thread, its the same for everyone but more noticable on 30mm.   

[2bighorn]

its the same for everyone but more noticable on 30mm.  

I'll retort with another luftwhine.

We have to look at the whole platform, not only at weapons package.
As a platform, K4 for example, is very different than f4u. You have to fly it differently and you take different shots, you aim differently too.

In my case (before the break) my hit percentage in tater was about 30 percent. In F4U with standard 6x50cals was roughly 15 percent.
That's ratio of 2:1.
So, if you have some damage bug, your K4 would be affected twice as much as your F4U, practically, your fire power would be only half of that of F4U.
In conclusion, math often can't give you the whole picture, very often you have to look at more abstract things, intangibles, etc...


That's what it is...

[SEraider]

That's what it is...

I'd say - It is what it is...... 

[hitech]

I'll retort with another luftwhine.

We have to look at the whole platform, not only at weapons package.
As a platform, K4 for example, is very different than f4u. You have to fly it differently and you take different shots, you aim differently too.

In my case (before the break) my hit percentage in tater was about 30 percent. In F4U with standard 6x50cals was roughly 15 percent.
That's ratio of 2:1.
So, if you have some damage bug, your K4 would be affected twice as much as your F4U, practically, your fire power would be only half of that of F4U.
In conclusion, math often can't give you the whole picture, very often you have to look at more abstract things, intangibles, etc...


That's what it is...

ROFLMAO.

In conclusion, math often can't give you the whole picture.

You may wish to apply CORRECT math to your theory before making this statement.

because

That's ratio of 2:1.
So, if you have some damage bug, your K4 would be affected twice as much as your F4U, practically, your fire power would be only half of that of F4U.

Makes absolutely no since, it is equivalent to saying my car cost twice as much as yours, there for it goes twice as fast.

I.E. you have shown no correlation between hit ratio's and and how each is effected you simply state better hit ratios are effected more then lower hit ratios with out given any reason what so ever why.

HiTech

[2bighorn]

I'd say - It is what it is...... 

... and is not the same for everyone.

[gyrene81]

Losing 10% effects the fighting ability of both equally. I.E. they loose 10% of there killing power. Your 50 and 13 % comparison is really showing nothing more then a p51 has more fire time then the mk108. This is true with our without a bug.

HiTech

I put those 3 second burst calculations in there as a response to this:

Given any 3 sec burst the same % of rounds would be effected under both systems. And hence the killing power per sec has been reduced by the same percentage with each plane.

The same % of ammo has been wasted by each plane

Clearly erroneous due to rate of fire, number of weapons and available ammunition but, not a big deal.

If the 30mm had the same ammo capacity as the .50 cals, duds wouldn't be noticed and there probably wouldn't be any need for explosive projectiles.

I've been wondering if that bug is affecting the 20mm as well. Doesn't appear to be but then it's not often you fire just 1 or 2 rounds of 20mm.

[2bighorn]

You may wish to apply CORRECT math to your theory before making this statement.

Oh my, 30:15 = 2:1

because
Makes absolutely no since, it is equivalent to saying my car cost twice as much as yours, there for it goes twice as fast.

Nope, more like if I put in twice the fuel I'll go twice as far.

I.E. you have shown no correlation between hit ratio's and and how each is effected you simply state better hit ratios are effected more then lower hit ratios with out given any reason what so ever why.

You gave the reason, you've said all weapons are affected equally by the bug. So yeah, if that's true, better hit ratios will be affected more.