Author Topic: Natalie Holloway case  (Read 3218 times)

Offline dedalos

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2010, 09:43:01 AM »
He attempted to extort $250K from Beth Twitty in exchange for telling her where her daughter's body was. She sent him the first $15K, under the supervision of the FBI. He signed for and accepted the money. He could easily be tried and convicted for extortion here. He can be extradited under U.S. law to stand trial for extortion. The only question is how the extradition treaty with Peru is working.

Oh cool, I did not know that.  I still think they will want to keep him there for murder trial though.  Bigger punishment than extortion, no?  I quess what I am saying is that we kind of want him to stay there.  If he gets convicted of extortion he will be out in a few years if not months.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline 68Wooley

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2010, 10:46:58 AM »
I'm guessing Peru will consider their murder case trumps a US extortion case. I doubt he'll be on US soil any time soon. That said, its not beyond the realms of possibility that Peru releases him to the US after their legal system is done with him on condition he serves out his sentence in a US prison (assuming he's convicted this time).

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2010, 10:53:06 AM »
Oh cool, I did not know that.  I still think they will want to keep him there for murder trial though.  Bigger punishment than extortion, no?  I quess what I am saying is that we kind of want him to stay there.  If he gets convicted of extortion he will be out in a few years if not months.

Certainly the U.S. extortion charges and trial are secondary to the murder trial in Peru. The question remains, how swift and how severe is the justice in Peru. He confessed almost immediately to the murder in Peru. Of course, there was a ton of evidence. But you have to wonder if some leniency was offered in exchange for that confession, and if so, how much. I'd love to think that he'll get long term severe punishment in Peru, but I'm not betting the farm on it.
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Offline dedalos

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2010, 11:02:10 AM »
I'd love to think that he'll get long term severe punishment in Peru, but I'm not betting the farm on it.

Why not?  I am sure murder is elegal there also. 
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline bj229r

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2010, 11:13:13 AM »
Certainly the U.S. extortion charges and trial are secondary to the murder trial in Peru. The question remains, how swift and how severe is the justice in Peru. He confessed almost immediately to the murder in Peru. Of course, there was a ton of evidence. But you have to wonder if some leniency was offered in exchange for that confession, and if so, how much. I'd love to think that he'll get long term severe punishment in Peru, but I'm not betting the farm on it.
I'm guessing Peru has a few more tools to exact confessions than our guys have
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2010, 12:23:58 PM »
Why not?  I am sure murder is elegal there also. 

I'm sure it is illegal as well.

However, the accused has money, and access to more, and his mother is obviously willing to spend it on him, regardless of how bad he is. Money buys a lot of things, leniency is one of them. We'll just have to wait and see what sort of justice system Peru has.
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Offline dedalos

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2010, 12:33:22 PM »
I'm sure it is illegal as well.

However, the accused has money, and access to more, and his mother is obviously willing to spend it on him, regardless of how bad he is. Money buys a lot of things, leniency is one of them. We'll just have to wait and see what sort of justice system Peru has.

In either case, getting him on an extortion charge would be the bast case scenario for him.  Somehow I think jail there wont be as fun as it would be here.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline ZetaNine

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2010, 12:55:52 PM »
not only will they keep him in a chilean prison.....as they should......but I have no doubt...he will die in their prison system.










By Benjamin Witte

A flurry of prisoner deaths has brought renewed attention to a distressing yet often-ignored reality in Chile--that left behind in the country's "miracle" rush toward First World status is a troubled prison system that the Corte Suprema de Justicia (CSJ) calls "inhuman, degrading, and cruel."

In late April, fire broke out during a riot in Colina II, a large and typically overcrowded prison on the northern outskirts of Santiago. The blaze killed 10 inmates. Less than two weeks later, in the same facility, a fight between rival gangs left two more prisoners dead.

The deadly fire prompted an investigation by the CSJ, which subsequently released a report confirming what human rights groups have claimed for years--that Chile's prison system is bursting at the seams, more or less incapable of rehabilitating its inmates, and extremely dangerous. The author of the report, prosecutor Monica Maldonado, described the system as simply "inhumane, degrading, and cruel."

The most pressing problem is overcrowding. In the past decade, the prison population has spiked, up 70% to nearly 54,000. Chile now has the highest incarceration rate (318 per 100,000 residents) of any country in Latin America. Neighboring Argentina, in contrast, jails just half that proportion, according to the UN's Latin American Institute for the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders (Instituto Latinoamericano de las Naciones Unidas para la Prevencion del Delito y el Tratamiento del Delincuente, ILANUD).

e country's jails have beds for just 31,000 people, meaning the system as a whole is overburdened by approximately 47%. In many cases, jails are operating at literally double their capacity. The Valparaíso prison currently houses 2,896 inmates, far in excess of its 1,200-person capacity, Maldonado reported. The Santiago Sur prison is supposed to hold 3,170 prisoners but instead has nearly 6,700 inmates.

"The overcrowding is made worse by the fact that inmates must often stay in their cells for 15 hours a day. Generally speaking, the cells lack basic hygienic services, adequate light, and ventilation," wrote Maldonado.

Maldonado's report also criticized the common practice of punishing inmates with solitary confinement, whereby prisoners are kept in dark, empty, sometimes toiletless cells for stints of up to 10 days.

"These people are kept away from daylight, in true dungeons," Congressman Gabriel Silber of the moderate Partido Democrata Cristiano (PDC) told NotiSur. "There's the issue of the inmates' human rights. But the question should also be asked, can we really talk about the eventual social reinsertion of these people? Because they're going to leave [prison] even more hate filled, more aggressive. In the end this just hurts Chilean society."

Chile's justice minister admits the jails are "overburdened" but denies Maldonado's claim that the system as a whole is in "crisis." Nevertheless, outgoing President Michelle Bachelet's administration agrees on the need for prison reform and, in June, convened a special public-private committee that is expected to issue a series of recommendations by the end of the year.

In the meantime, blood continues to spill in Chile's prisons. On Sept. 8, a 25-year-old man died in the Valparaíso prison after being stabbed in the chest by a fellow inmate. He is one of 49 convicts who have died in prison fights so far this year, two more than in all of 2008 and nearly double the number of deaths (26) in 2007, according to Chile's corrections department, Gendarmería.

Suicides are increasingly common as well. In late August, officials from a prison in Rancagua reported a group-suicide attempt involving five inmates who tried to hang themselves simultaneously in their solitary-confinement cells. One prisoner, 30-year-old Ruben Antonio Robles Valdivia, succeeded. Fifteen inmates killed themselves in 2009. Nine have done so this year.

"The conditions are horrible," said Francisca Werth, head of the Santiago-based think tank Fundacion Paz Ciudadana. "It's absolutely unacceptable that people who are deprived of their freedom should be deprived of their other human rights as well. There's the issue of hygiene and health. Plus think about the levels of violence and stress these people are living with. For them [jail time] is a matter of basic survival."

Analysts trace the recent spike in incarcerations to the Reforma Penal, an overhaul of Chile's antiquated "inquisitive" criminal-justice system, which introduced oral proceedings (previously cases were presented in written form) and went into effect gradually between 2000 and 2005. The Santiago metro region, by far the country's most populous area, was the last of Chile's 15 regions to apply the changes.

In 1999, the year before the Reforma was introduced, Chile's prison population was approximately 30,000. By 2003, it rose to 38,000. At the end of 2007, after the reforms reached Santiago, nearly 46,000 Chileans were imprisoned. The courts have jailed some 8,000 more people in just the past year and a half.

"Today we have a criminal-justice system that is much more efficient in its ability to investigate and punish. That's why you see this huge rise in the number of people deprived of their freedom," said Mauricio Duce Julio, a law professor at the Universidad Diego Portales. "The number of convictions has tripled. It's a structural change."

To address overcrowding and improve Chile's already well-documented infrastructure problems, former President Ricardo Lagos (2000-2006) followed a controversial trend already present in the US, France, and a handful of other countries and began outsourcing both construction and administration of new prisons to private contractors.

The first of the private jails--the same Rancagua prison where Robles Valdivia hung himself last month--opened its doors in 2005. The company that built it, Belasco S.A., is traded publicly on Chile's stock market. Five other privately run prisons followed suit. Together they now house approximately 18% of the country's prisoners.

Critics say prison privatization presents a moral conflict of interest as it gives both the companies that build and operate the jails and their shareholders an incentive to see more people locked up. Chile's experiment with the model has run into logistical problems as well. Some of the planned jails have been scrapped. Others went well over budget.

"The first ones had serious problems with design and execution. They took too long to build and cost more than expected," said Duce Julio. "There've been other problems as well, like a rise in suicides, which has been addressed by Diego Portales' [annual] human rights report and has to do with a model that stresses prisoner isolation."

Yet by most accounts, overall living and safety conditions are better in the new jails. Last year the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR) sent a special rapporteur to inspect the Chilean prison system firsthand. The inspector, Florentin Melendez, found that the private jails "offer greater dignity" for inmates and their families.

"Overcrowding was not observed in the centers operating under concession, and there are adequate levels of nutrition and hygiene, internal security, appropriate separation of inmates by category, prevention of international violence, and prisons services that include medical attention and therapy," he wrote.

But even with the new, and already packed, prisons, Chile still has a major cell deficit. And, say observers, until the country can lower its spiking incarceration rate, any future facilities, whether public or private, will fill up just as quickly.

"We need to ask ourselves whether we want to keep sending people to jail," said Deputy Silver, who recently visited several of Chile's largest prisons. "We need to ask ourselves whether it's been effective in fighting crime." (Sources: )
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 01:07:58 PM by ZetaNine »

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2010, 04:42:56 PM »
I'm sure it is illegal as well.

However, the accused has money, and access to more, and his mother is obviously willing to spend it on him, regardless of how bad he is. Money buys a lot of things, leniency is one of them. We'll just have to wait and see what sort of justice system Peru has.

The murdered girl's father has more money and far clout in Peru than the murdering toejamhead's mother.  He's not going to be able to buy his way out of this one.


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Offline fbWldcat

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2010, 05:09:07 PM »
As well as life in prison, I would like to see him waterboarded daily, maybe some of those things that "don't happen?"  :noid :mad:

People like this don't belong in society. If he is released, I don't care how much money you are given, as a judge, it is your responsibility to uphold the law. Letting a man like this go with a lesser charge would be inhuman. Simply not enough words in Webster's to explain the hate I feel for this guy.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2010, 05:11:10 PM »
The murdered girl's father has more money and far clout in Peru than the murdering toejamhead's mother.  He's not going to be able to buy his way out of this one.


ack-ack

This, he picked the wrong pretty young Peruvian girl to choke this time - her father is I think some national hero/sports figure/race car driver/community activist, I pray for quick justice now for his family and a Holloways.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2010, 05:25:35 PM »
The murdered girl's father has more money and far clout in Peru than the murdering toejamhead's mother.  He's not going to be able to buy his way out of this one.


ack-ack

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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2010, 06:05:00 PM »
not only will they keep him in a chilean prison.....as they should......but I have no doubt...he will die in their prison system.

Why in Chilean?

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2010, 06:08:37 PM »
Well, don't ever go Chicago either because the number of cases of guys committing murder while on parole is way bigger.   I know, our sit does not stink.  Lets just bomb Aruba too  :lol

lol Nothing in chicago of any interest... why would anyone go there unless they had to.
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Offline SIK1

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Re: Natalie Holloway case
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2010, 06:19:59 PM »
not only will they keep him in a chilean prison.....as they should......but I have no doubt...he will die in their prison system.


He's not in Chili he's in Peru. The crime was committed in Peru he will be tried in Peru and he will serve time in Peru.. As far as I have heard he hasn't even broken any laws in Chili.

Hopefully when, and if he gets out of prison in Peru he can come to the states and stand trial for the extortion and wire fraud charges.

And room with Bubba. His new name will be Ben Dover.
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