Reasons NOT to have jet fighters- other ramblings too

[Urchin]

Heh exchange "LA-7" for "G-10" and I'm with you.
I see a lot of LA-7's running, but not so many 109s.

Then again, I do not encounter many 109s.

 

I rather agree with you on this, but I couldn't decide where to put the LA-7.  t does either belong in the "runner" category, or in the "niki" category.  The LA7 is quite a formidable plane- I expect we will see it's usage go up dramatically as "word gets out", so to speak.

 

Ironically, the Ki-61 has the best K/D of the group.
 

I noticed this as well, Deja, and I don't know quite what to make of it.  I've flown the Ki on a couple occasions, but I haven't really flown in it, if you know what I mean.  I'll have to try it out.

 

Once again, the Yak-9U is virtually identical to the Dora in fighter kills. I imagine the dora will beat it in bomber kills <just checked.. it does 253 to 126>, but really matches it in K/D and total kills against fighters.

 

Yes, I didn't check the stats before I posted it- but I say that the Yak was seeing some use as well ;-).  It really IS quite a nice plane.

 

The SpitV is used considerably too... its the 5th most popular plane right now. It also leads both of the LW planes.

Didn't even look- thanks for pointing that out.  I have a tendency to lump all the "spits" together since that is what the icon says.

 

Not really "regular use".. though two are used more than the others. Ironically... its the fastest 109 and fastest 190 that get used the most. Though... I'm sure nobody using these planes has ever uttered the word "runstang".  

<Shrug>  you are absolutely right about them being less common in the MA than the other common planes.  But since we are on the topic of diversity, why doesn't HTC put in a German plane that people will use?  And before you ask, no I have no idea what that might be.  Also, about the "runstangness" of those two- people actually try to run from me quite often when I fight them, I just usually catch them.

 

Actually... there would be 5 planes. The F6F-5 and P-38L are used just as much as the LW planes, though they don't really get as many kills. Once again.. don't forget to look at the deaths column.

I kinda think that directly reflects the primary demographics of the game.

 

I think the p38 must be going through some sort of rebirth- I hadn't noticed many of them, but I do see 2 or 3 a day this tour.  The F6F (and the F4U-D) are both "conditional" planes.  I see a LOT of them when someone is making a carrier attack on a base (because they carrier ordinance)- and I hardly see any at all if it is a landbased attack.  This, I might add, does NOT match up with the C-Hog, you used to be able to see hordes of those no matter what kind of attack it was.

 

BTW Urchin.. I couldn't help but notice that in all your wanderings (onesy twosy tries of aircrafts)... you seldomely tried the lesser used planes from any country. Were you expecting everyone else to provide this diversity

I've flown every aircraft this game has to offer.  Some I try once and discard (F4U, F6F, P51)- some I play with a little more (Yak, for instance, or p47).  I DO primarily fly the German planes, that is a given.  I actually think I fly the German planes better than any other aircraft, because I have gotten to know their characteristics (especially the 109, still learning the 190).  But to answer your question, I am actually thinking that next tour I am going to do something a little different.  I am going to go down the list of aircraft and fly them in order, until I die in them.  Then I am going to start over, until the next tour.  I think I'll have a little more fun that way, and get to learn the aircraft a little better.

 

Out of 160 kills, I've killed 40 different types of aircraft. How much more diverse do you want?

 

But the only fighters you have more than 3 kills against are the Niki, Spit, and La7.  I think that says something in itself.

[Urchin]

Me-262 was a legend, Just like Me-109, P-51D, Spitfires etc.
Without it any game having later war planes isn't complete.  

Staga, I agree with you that it was a legend.  I don't agree that it is nescesary in the game.

 

Don't know why people think N1K2(Hey,got it right for once Pyro)..) is such a super plane..For me,my Spit does everything better except run(which they usually try to do in the end but too late)and kills them everytime.262's will make a nice perk ride too except nobody will use them like they were meant to..ie..bomber intercept.Who would risk 100 perks(my guess) on closing on a b17?Great for scenarios I would guess.Maybe if they had something like a graded cost system,where if you were ranked in the top 100(half cost),top 50(1/4 cost),top 10(free ride..most 262 Pilots were LW elite,this would add incentive and immersion imho)..<Salutes!>  

The Spitfire is one of the planes the Niki has a hard time with.  That alone could account for some of its popularity.  The Niki does hold an edge over the Spit, and that is speed- the Niki can choose when to engage, and when to disengage.  Against the Niki, a lot of planes don't have that option- the exception being all the planes in my "runner" category.  All of those can run from a Niki.

[Hornet]

I'm never against the development of new planes, especially if it improves scenario play. But do all planes have to be made available in the MA? AW rarely had the 262's enabled in the arenas, it seems that could be a workable solution here as well and perhaps further enticement to participate in the organized events.

[sling322]

Originally posted by Hornet:
But do all planes have to be made available in the MA? AW rarely had the 262's enabled in the arenas, it seems that could be a workable solution here as well  <snip>

That is the reason for perk points, right?  It takes an arena-unbalancing plane and makes it cost a little something to fly.  I have no problem with 262's showing up in the arena.  If the current perk set is any indicator of the future, then all they are gonna be are dweeb magnets.  I guarantee you that each time you are in one, you will attract a crowd that will attempt to chase you down until you run out of fuel or try to land...whichever comes first.

[Staga]

btw Me-262 will propably have 30mm MK-108 cannons = Big Boom but you need to be REALLY close to target.

[AKDejaVu]

But the only fighters you have more than 3 kills against are the Niki, Spit, and La7. I think that says something in itself.

Yes.. it says you have an incredible case of tunnelvision.  I have more than three kills against Spit9, SpitV, La-5, La-7, A6M5, N1K2, 109G-10, F4u-1C, F4u-1D, F6F-5, P-38L, P-51D, B-17, LVTA2, LVTA4, and C-47.

AKDejaVu

[deSelys]

My 2 cents:

I'm not against jets as long as they have a limited period of use at the end of the tour (jet WE?).

I agree that the perk system is unsatisfactory. I believe that some kind of RPS based on history AND gameplay (to give each plane its chance) would be better (maybe more of this later in an another post). IMO, perk system is viable if combined with RPS to limit use of rarely seen planes like F4U-1C, Fw190 D9 (hell, I love this one, I'm shooting myself in the foot)...and jets.


OTOH, a sentence read in the original post made me jump:

   

I DO have about 20 kills in the 109G10. However, I don't RUN in the plane as is so common with G10,D9, and 51D pilots.
 

Well, I'm sorry to deprive some of you of your illusions, but other people aren't here to play the game like you would them to play it and get shot down to please you: as you surely know, every plane you 'fly' (don't like the word, it's only a game) has its advantages and disadvantages. Trainers say you have to exploit your advantages AND the disadvantages of your opponent. For me it means: you can't hope to win the fight but your plane is faster (or climbs better): YOU RUN! I don't see the need to give a free kill to an opponent. The other guy follows you deep into your territory and gets shot down by you or somebody else: it's his own fault. He lacked tactical sense.

This kind of remark reminds me of a channel 1 call from some player (I don't even remember his handle) yelling at enemy bombers because THEY WERE FLYING TOO HIGH...
   

For the guys who want fair fights with rules, etc, I suggest H2H. MA or historical scenarios risk to be very frustrating to them.

I know I sound harsh, but I'm getting tired of this PC crowd looking down at you because you run when caught in a difficult position or don't enter the merge guns cold.

Blood pressure back to normal now...

de Selys

PS: I should add that I'm not proning a 'gaming the game' attitude. I wont use un-historical techniques like carbombing or suicide attacks (with the exception of japanese planes     ). But I won't yell at players doing it...they paid their 30$ too, after all.

[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]

[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]

[BenDover]

Originally posted by Seeker:
Hopefully, given enough time, HTC will model just about anything that flew from the birth of flight to the present day; at which point we'll definately be looking at either rolling plane sets or seperate arenas; but note this doesn't explicitly imply historic gameplay.

I they do put all planes in,but forgot about the rolling plane set,wouldn't it be funny to take an f-16 down with a spit  

[Urchin]

Yes.. it says you have an incredible case of tunnelvision. I have more than three kills against Spit9, SpitV, La-5, La-7, A6M5, N1K2, 109G-10, F4u-1C, F4u-1D, F6F-5, P-38L, P-51D, B-17, LVTA2, LVTA4, and C-47.

AKDejaVu

 

Actually, I have the worst case of Retard-vision <TM>.  I was looking at the damn DEATHS column, not the kills column.  My apoligies for being a handsomehunk.  LOL.. I don't believe I looked in the wrong column.

[Urchin]

DeSelys-  I have nothing against people who "fly to life" as they put it.  I wouldn't even say I "look down" on people who run when they get in a bad situation, or who go guns hot at the merge.  Hell, in the MA, I go guns hot if the situation warrants it- I usually manuever to get on the bandit's tail off the merge though, instead of trying for an often difficult shot.

What I DO have a problem with, and I'll admit that this is strictly a personal issue, are people who fly Doras and P51s that ONLY engage if they have an altitude advantage and/or a numbers advantage, and then once they realize they aren't good enough to bounce me when I know they are there, run off.  It just gets damn aggravating after a while, if you know what I mean.  I've noticed this becoming increasingly common as time goes on (I've only been playing AH for 3 months though, so I am no expert).

[deSelys]

Hello Urchin,

I won't say I do what you're describing every time, but when I'm in a Dora or a Pony and I feel the guy below is better/smarter than me, I run indeed, and use that last bit of alt advantage to increase separation.

Example: I fought yesterday against Sirloin who was defending a field. We were both in Spit IX and I quickly saw that I wasn't facing a dweeb. He scared the beejezus out of me a couple of time, until I was able to get away and rtb to land a 0 kill sortie (letting him kill our goon about to capture the field, still biting my fingers when I think of it...). We talked it out a bit later... <S> again, Sirloin. My name isn't in your kill log, but we both know you were the winner.

I can understand you're frustrated when seeing this, but nothing prevents you to leave the low alt furballs to roam the skies looking for some prey. Kills don't come very often, but I prefer a 10 kills streak than 100 kills and 90 deaths. My way to enjoy the game....

de Selys

[Hangtime]

The beauty of this game is it's abililty to give such a broad spectrum of pleasure to such a broad spectrum of players with diffrent flying styles.

Picture it at the Best A/C potatohouse and Flight Sim in Texas, Right Now; Worldwide. (sm)

.. Wanna B&Z, stay live, run like hell; emulate Bubbi Hartmann or Gabby Gabreski?... we got the planes fer you.

.. Wanna bomb the enemy's High Command to the stone age?? step right up..

.. Care to furball.. line up here; no waiting. Laz will be with you inna second, sir.  

.. think yer slick enuff to run a complex armor attack.. or better yet; jabo armor into scrap metal? Eggs we got fer u.

.. Would you like a little whine with your cheezy gripes? We got that too.

.. Tired of the same 'ol mud movin?? Join the Navy; see the world, and capture it. Or die trying.

.. Chasing sheep your thing? They ain't baaaaaaad in here folks, not baaaaaaaaaaad at all.  

.. Ok; so yah think that oriental nooky's gettin a litte old? Wanna try something big and flashy?? Sir, we have Jugs right over here...

Folks.. it's "What's the beef?" Not "Where's the beef?"  

[deSelys]

LOL Hangtime   ! <S>

de Selys

[lazs1]

hang is correct.. we do have the best of choice and variety that is possible with the resourses we have.   karnak is correct also as am i and the 262 issure rearing it's ugly head is just a peek at the crumbling foundation.  

We can't continue to make the game a faster and faster game and phase out the slower planes.   Most really great planes like P40, spit1, f4f, 109e Mosquito etc, have been misscarried or aborted because we have no place for em in the current MA.   these planes were not only "legends" but real legends... they actually had an affect every day in large numbers but.... The town isn't big enough for early and late war planes in the same MA.   We need a coupla days at the beggining of the tour to fly these great and fun (can u say "fun" in this thread?) early war rides.

urchin... you want a fun LW plane that will get used... There weren't any... with the exception of the 109E... A plane that would be a blast to fly but... unless it is in an RPS it will be useless.   Put the super planes in an RPS for say the last day or 3 of the tour too.
lazs

[Staga]

Laz I'm sure you'll be able to turn'n'burn in furball in 262 too...

You like to furball so maybe you don't like to see a fast flying plane you couldn't catch but if someone likes to boom in battle and zoom out dragging chain of Spits and Nikies behind him why shouldn't he get what he wants ?
Oh but then that person wouldn't fly like "Furballers" want him to fly: Keeping fast plane turning around and around so tb'ers with Spits and Nikies could have a chance to catch it ?

Yep, that must be it.