Author Topic: Tweak the Athalon 800...or not...???  (Read 659 times)

TheWobble

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Tweak the Athalon 800...or not...???
« on: December 02, 2000, 09:50:00 PM »
I am running an Athalon 800
256mb ram
38gb HD
Voodoo3 3000 AGP

I know I need to upgrade My vid, but to what?
I am SOO torn between the V5 or a Geforce
which is better FOR THE PRICE.

Also should i try and Overclock my 800, and if so to what speed can this be done with a LARGE margin of safty.
And i dont want to have to put the whole thing in a mini fridge.  ( have a friend that keeps his tower in a mini fridege)


TheWobble

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Tweak the Athalon 800...or not...???
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2000, 09:53:00 PM »
Oh yea forgot, on the vid cards, I dont want a "bargan" type of a card (geforceMx or whatever its called)  I want high performance but under say $250 American (alot under hopefully)

Offline sling322

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Tweak the Athalon 800...or not...???
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2000, 01:58:00 AM »
Hey Wobble...I have a Voodoo5 5500 AGP card that doesnt fit in my tower.  I bought it to upgrade my old pc and then I broke down and bought a whole new pc with plans on installing the Voodoo in the new pc.  Well when I got it home and tried to install it, the darn thing is too long to fit in the tower where the AGP slot is because of the drive case.  If you decide to go with the Voodoo, let me know and I can give you a good deal on the one I have.  The box is open, but like I said, the card is unused.  Email me at mtodd111@ev1.net and let me know.

Offline Lephturn

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Tweak the Athalon 800...or not...???
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2000, 09:00:00 AM »
Yeah, the V5 is a massive card.  It JUST fits in my case, but not by much.

The reason I picked the V5 over the GeForce 2 is Full Scene Anti Aliasing.  It is a very good feature to have in games like Aces High.  Check it out:  http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/fsaa.htm

However, if you want the best bang for the buck, you can't go wrong with the GeForce 2 MX.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

Offline 214thCavalier

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Tweak the Athalon 800...or not...???
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2000, 12:58:00 PM »
Lephturn you seem to forget the GEForce cards do have FSAA and its just as good as the 3DFX version IN Aces High.
Just for comparison here is a screenshot from a GEForce 2 Ultra 64mb, taken at 1280x1024 res with 4 FSAA.
I think its generally accepted that the Nvidia 4xFSAA is about equal of the 3DFX 2xFSAA which is of no consequence really cos the 3DFX 4xFSAA is currently unplayable.

Taken at 1280x1024 res 32 bit and compressed 15x as a JPG as a picture should be. Gifs are really not best for compressing photos / pictures they are best with text or large areas of uniform colours. By compressing using Gifs it automatically reduces down to 256 colours max.
And Jpg's as you will see are not good with text hence the slightly blurry look to the FPS counter.
Saved as a GIF the FPS text looked much better but the plane looked worse.
Picture size is approx 135k so not too big.
 http://www.cavalier.cwc.net/DLFiles/1280x4fsaa.jpg

I also took a piccy at 1024  http://www.cavalier.cwc.net/DLFiles/1024x4fsaa.jpg
and if you zoom in on the wing leading edge and compare with Lephturns ignoring the picture degradation from saving as a Gif there is not much visible difference but i think the Nvidia's 4x is slightly better than the 3DFX 2x.
But i posted the 1280 res version to show that as the res goes up so does the FPS      
At 1024 res i was getting 33 fps i think and bumped up to 39fps at 1280 res. At 1600 res using same shot its a lot faster like 50+ fps but FSAA does not work at that res and so the picture looks worse than at 1280 with FSAA.
Sure wish i could try FSAA at 1600 tho.

But umm lets not forget this card is in a totally different price band.

[This message has been edited by 214thCavalier (edited 12-03-2000).]

Offline Lephturn

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Tweak the Athalon 800...or not...???
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2000, 03:53:00 PM »
Cavalier before I picked one I made personal comparisons in AH.  I didn't have the uber-expensive 64 Meg GF2 to compare to, but as you mention it's not in the same price leage as the V5.  I did my comparisons with the regualr 32 Meg GF2.

I have actually set AH up two identical systems at a computer shop, one with a V5 and one with a GF2.  The V5's implementation of FSAA is just better.  You can't really see the difference until you play, it's the movement thing.  What happens is that the GF2's only really do FSAA in one axis, mostly the vertical.  Horizontal lines don't work out so well.  You really notice it when you are at the dead six of another plane and chasing him at long range.  As he tilts his wings a bit you will see the crawling thing going on without FSAA.  The 3dfx implementation at 2x removes that effect better than the nVidia FSAA does at 2x2 (pretend 4x).  The Voodoo implementation uses a jittering patern, and it anti-aliases everything regarless of it's orientation.  Where this shows up in a game like AH is the wings of planes.  There are a lot of horizontal lines in AH and it shows the differences more than any other game I've played.

And yeah, it's generally accepted that nVidia's 2x2 (What they call 4x) FSAA is about equal to 3DFX's 2x FSAA.  However, can you play AH with a GF 2 with their 4x FSAA enabled?  I can play with the V5's 2xFSAA on in every game I have at 1024x768 32 bit color.  Very strange that you get a higher framerate at 1280.  I can't test that since my monitor would pop and melt.    If you can run your GeForce at that speed, then what kind of processor are you driving it with?

FSAA aside, I find the V5's visual quality to be better.  Some of it's just personal taste, but I did set the two up side by side before I picked one.  Not much else I can say, it's just my opinion.  

BTW, if you hit my site again, at the bottom are the original screenshots.  Yeah they are huge, but worth a look if you really want to see what it looks like.  The reason I picked GIFs is that a game like AH is basically line art.  yeah it has textures, but it's not a photograph.  Althought the colors will be off in a Gif, it does not add visual anomalies like jpg compression does, and in this case I think that's the most important issue.

I'm just waiting for SOMEBODY... ANYBODY to make a card that will do 4x FSAA (real jittered 4x) at 1024x768 (or higher) in 32 bit color and get me 30fps minimum.  I don't think even the GF2 Ultra will do this right now... not like I could afford one anyway.  I think nVidia is doing a better job with their hardware, but I like the direction 3DFX has taken.  Going hardcore at FSAA is the ticket IMHO, and I just hope somebody puts out a card with enough horsepower.  Unfortunately the limit seems to be video memory bandwidth, so we may not see that card for a while.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

Offline bloom25

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Tweak the Athalon 800...or not...???
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2000, 05:50:00 PM »
The GeForce2 GTS will give you the highest FPS by quite a large margin over the V5 at that price range.  On the other hand, the V5 has better FSAA.

It's a tough choice between the two...

(Personally I'd take the GF2, you get some FSAA and better framerates.  It also isn't 1.5 feet long.   )



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Offline sling322

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Tweak the Athalon 800...or not...???
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2000, 07:10:00 PM »
Well I wouldnt say it is 1.5 feet long Hblair....  but almost  

All I know is that it wont fit in my tower case dammit so it is just sitting here wasting space.

Offline 214thCavalier

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Tweak the Athalon 800...or not...???
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2000, 08:09:00 PM »
Ok cpu i am using is Tbird 850 mhz clocked and happy at 1 gig.
Its not strange really that i get faster FPS at 1280 than 1024 as for this card its only just starting to peak at 1280 and the same effect happened with my std Geforce 256 it was always faster in AH at 1280 than at 1024.
Was playing tonight in MA with Nvidias x4 FSAA on at 1280 res 32 bit and getting over 50fps once off the ground. In real heavy smoke would drop to about 10fps.
I normally play at 1600 res and get a staedy 69 70 fps, my monitor refresh is at 70 so fps is being held in check, turn off vsync and i get about 85 - 120 depending on view. All of which just gives me a bigger margin in smoke / clouds usually never drops below 25 fps.
To compare them my point was not to try em both at 2x FSAA but try them both at the max FSAA they can manage and be playable.
3DFX at 2FSAA and Nvidia at 4FSAA they both are playable at this setting and virtually impossible to tell apart.
Sure the Nvidia is at its max here and the 3DFDX can go to 4xFSAA and look better but its not playable.
Of course i can not compare a std GEForce 2 but the fairest comparison would be testing both cards at the max setting that is still playable.
I am not playing Nvidia cheerleader here as both are good cards and i have used 3DFX products in the past and been very happy with them, i just cant help feeling if tested at max playable setting for each card then the difference will not be very much at all as regards visual quality.