High Explosive rounds do not detonate on targets.

[OLtos]

Good day,

I have noticed that HE rounds of all descriptions have little or no effect on tanks.  Upon closer inspection and many attacks done off line I could actually see that they were not detonating on impact.  Instead the rounds would bounce off and explode when they hit the ground.

I tested this in an extreme and easy to duplicate scenario and was greatly surprised by the result.   

Off line, loaded a T34/85.
Drove it over to a Tiger Tank.
Set up my shot so that I was as close to 90 degrees of deflection as possible on its flank.
Fired repeatedly at very very close range, (about 10 yards )
As I fired I started receiving the sound effect of getting hit.  (This required a great deal of aim adjustment after each shot to get the right angle.)
Continuing to fire I eventually blew my own tracks off.

The HE rounds were failing to explode on the target.  The round was bouncing back and hitting my tank.  Then the HE round would explode doing damage to ME!  I have a film of this really strange HE round behavior but I do not know how to post it with this report

regards
OLtos

[BrownBaron]

HE rounds deflect off the tanks armor. AP rounds penetrate the armor because they have a superior velocity. The rounds are deflecting off of your armor as well, thats why they took out your unarmored tracks.

[Chalenge]

If you use HE near the tracks or into the flanks of GVs they will lose their tracks or even explode outright (except the Tiger which will lose its tracks often enough).

[dkff49]

When it bounces off it may not be hitting you but hitting the ground beside you. The damage your receiving most likely is "splash" damage from the HE round going off so close to your tank. This effect can also be seen by driving over to a tree and firing an HE round at it. If you do this you will find the pintle gun gone (if the tank is equipped with one).

[Nemisis]

Reason for rounds not exploding is that it would be confusing as hell. You couldn't tell if you had scored a hit or not  if more than 1 person is shooting (given the number of people here, there will be at least 3 shooting at a target at any given time, 60% of the time when at a moderate sized tank fight).

[AHTbolt]

hello all, was looking at the forms trying to get caught up and bugs and other problems since im just comming over from FA. I found this topic interesting since i was in tanks for most of my army carrier. HE rounds will not bounce of another tank, tank HE rounds are fused to explode on impact and if they dont explode, due to the thin wall of the shell it will just shatter. On the other hand AP rounds will bounce of heavy armor leaving just a diviot in the armor, I had 2 125mm T-72 rounds put diviots in my M1A1 while 1 stuck in the turret front slope. Just my two cents.

[BrownBaron]

hello all, was looking at the forms trying to get caught up and bugs and other problems since im just comming over from FA. I found this topic interesting since i was in tanks for most of my army carrier. HE rounds will not bounce of another tank, tank HE rounds are fused to explode on impact and if they dont explode, due to the thin wall of the shell it will just shatter. On the other hand AP rounds will bounce of heavy armor leaving just a diviot in the armor, I had 2 125mm T-72 rounds put diviots in my M1A1 while 1 stuck in the turret front slope. Just my two cents.

In real life they would explode, but for the same of gameplay HE rounds simply bounce off of armor.

Welcome to the terribly addicting world of AH 

[Nemisis]

Will be interesting to see if working in tanks in the real world translates over into AH as skill. I'm more than willing to bet that being a fighter pilot would help here.

Always good to have some new competition, <S>.

[AHTbolt]

Well i wont be doing much tanking here in AH but I do like the set up with vehicles. And i do fly alot with a friend of mine that has a 2 seater stunt plane now thats a blast.

[Dr_Death8]

Whether or not the rounds were deflecting or not, at 10yds away your tank is going to take damage from your own HE explosions anyway.

Although I have not really tested it in a while, didn't the Tiger have a weakness when HE rounds hit just under the chassis? Basically shooting the dirt right under or beside them. They would take blast damage rather than having the rounds deflect. 

"Fired repeatedly at very very close range, (about 10 yards )"

[OLtos]

From OLtos:

OK well the "...for sake of game play..." comment answers all.  When I first started playing AH HVAR would kill tanks.  Now they don't.  Some research showed me that the HVAR is essentially a 5" HE naval round on the end of a rocket.  That's a 35 pound charge and the paper I read said it would penetrate nearly two inches of armor.  More than enough to kill a tank with a more or less top down hit.  The idea that they have to "bounce off" is just another "game play" thang.  Weird, to my mind silly, (no I won't argue it), and about as silly as being able to jump around the positions of a tank.  It's a game play thing I get it.  I don't have to like it.  But a 35 pound HE round dropping on the upper armor of a tank, with rocket velocities, should do something besides bounce.  Even an M1 Abrams does not have 2 inches on the top of the turret.  I do recall several accounts of the Italian campaign of destroyers used their 5" guns to pop tigers on coastal roads.

Now, however, that begs the historical question, ( of absolutely NO import just a curiosity ), of why not use a 5 " naval AP round on a rocket to kill armor.  Was there no such critter made in WWII? And, if not, why can't we pilots have a "... for the sake of game play..." thang like the tankers do?  ( just a question really not even a wish ).

Oh,  yeah, the part where I took damage from "splash".   I ruled that out because I had to work so hard to aim the ricochet to hit me.  The ten foot range just made that easier.  I actually noticed it further out, but could not duplicate it easily. The ricochet actually needed to hit me directly, or so it seemed.

Up above here some one noted that bouncing rounds off the ground into the belly of tanks should work.  It does seem far fetched, but where this idea comes from is an interview on the Military Channel in an episode of Wings where a P47 driver described killing tanks, ( I do not recall that he specified Tigers ), by using his 50 cals in this manner.  One interview from one guy, often repeated on many different shows.   I would love to think it could work, but he may have been exaggerating a bit, ( i.e. war stories begin with "no toejam there I was" and fairy tales begin "once upon a time" ).

In the end the change from some functionality to NONE vs hvy armor for the sake of "game play" strikes me the wrong way.  I largely don't play GVs because the "No toejam there I was" aspect of that part of Aces High is just through the roof.

Thanks for the responses!  REALLY thanks.     I never knew the reason for the change and that more than the change itself was annoying.  I am happy to consider this closed.  Thanks again.

regards
OLtos

[Nemisis]

Something I want to see is someone getting kill shot on a friendly airplane by bouncing a round off an enemy tank .

[KG45]

HE will detonate and will kill a tank. needs to land on top and from a hi arc. killed a couple Panzers w/ the LTV4 howitzer and once with a T34 76 (the HE was all I had).

never really expected to get a kill, was mostly trying to harass 'em.

[Scherf]

Lordy, the number of times B-25s have killed my pnzr with one shot...

[E25280]

HE will detonate and will kill a tank. needs to land on top and from a hi arc. killed a couple Panzers w/ the LTV4 howitzer and once with a T34 76 (the HE was all I had).

never really expected to get a kill, was mostly trying to harass 'em.

Yes, HE will kill a tank -- and it doesn't necessarily have to hit the top.  You do, however, need to hit at almost exactly 90 degrees on a flat surface.  On T-34s, for example, if you hit the side above the track but below the sloped armor, it will pop.

Many moons ago some squaddies and I were trying to test the theory often sported that HE will track tanks quicker than AP.  We never got any good results because HE was killing our target subjects.