Please fix the tiger...

[Nemisis]

And to those that say that the tiger is worthless, you obvisouly don't know how to drive one. Before I changed my name, I upped a tiger under heavy enemy aircover. I got killed often, but I took out 3 tanks before the bombs landed on average. People using tigers like that is why the KTD isn't higher than it is currently. A lot of newbs are like "oh cool, I can FINALLY drive a tiger" *ups, looks around and drives forward 200yds, killed from behind by a T-34/85* "how did I die? I was in a tiger and i just randomly exploded. HTC hates me, *generic newb lost his perks whine*, etc".

If you get within 1700yds, you are handing people a large advantage.

[321BAR]

Main reason I ask for this to be fixed is that I've seen (and been in) a Tigers that keep going after having a 1000lb bomb land 10 feet from them (feet, not yds). Thats around 750lbs of high explosives going of 10 feet away from a tiger. I think that any tank would be destroyed (or at the very least flipped over) after that.

Even with the 2000lb bombs, the max distance away from one you can put it and still get a kill seems to be around 15yds. Either I'm serisouly misjudging distances outside 10yds when in a plane, or the tiger is nearly invincible to bombs under 2000lbs.

Also, I GUARANTEE that the tracks would take some kind of damage from any bomb bigger than 250lbs going off any closer than 10yds (for the 250lb bomb). You can track tanks with .50's and even .30's, but it seems to take a direct or near direct hit to damage them. Either the tracks are too tough, or the splash damage for anything HE is too weak.

yet i can kill tigers with 250lbers all the time AND get killed by them?

And to those that say that the tiger is worthless, you obvisouly don't know how to drive one. Before I changed my name, I upped a tiger under heavy enemy aircover. I got killed often, but I took out 3 tanks before the bombs landed on average. People using tigers like that is why the KTD isn't higher than it is currently. A lot of newbs are like "oh cool, I can FINALLY drive a tiger" *ups, looks around and drives forward 200yds, killed from behind by a T-34/85* "how did I die? I was in a tiger and i just randomly exploded. HTC hates me, *generic newb lost his perks whine*, etc".

If you get within 1700yds, you are handing people a large advantage.

i'd say the range that other tanks gain the advantage is more around 1000 yards to 800 yards. and thats only when the tiger's frontal armor isn't facing the enemy tank

[Nemisis]

The T-34/85's cannon begins to have some effect on the tiger at around 1600yds (I say 1700yds to give myself some lee way), the M4A3(76)'s at 1300yds, and the panzer's at 1100ys. You can turret them outside of this range, but you are very unlikely to come right out and kill them. This is all from personaly expierence (I'm not so obsessed that I test every cannon in the offline arena), and so may be wrong. But I'm willing to bet that its not far off.

[grumpy37]

from what I understand tanks didnt even engage each other in WWII over 1000 yards, or it was very very rare.  Most battles were between 500 and 1000.  Sherman rounds bounced off at anything over 500 yards, at least thats what the sherman driver on the discovery channel said.....

[Ghosth]

Typical scenario as I understand it between Sherman & tiger tank.

Tiger would be dug in, hidden someplace.

Group of 5 shermans come into range. Tiger waits to about 1200-1000 yards, kills the first one.

Other 4 shermans do a flock of birds routine and scatter for cover and position.
Typically as the tiger killed sherman #4 sherman #5 would put one in his rear from inside 500 yards. Preferably inside 300.

The dead shermans would get hauled back, hosed out, repaired and repainted and given to new crews.
It was pretty much luck of the draw who survived and who didn't.

[Spikes]

IMO if you get a 'lucky' Tiger, you can survive many hits. I've sat at a V-base before through multiple precision bomb drops, and lanc carpet bombings, and lived long enough for the VHs to pop (probably about 5 minutes of continuous bombing) and be able to get supplies and land.

It's not normal, but it's the only tank that will survive a 1000lb bomb.

[321BAR]

IMO if you get a 'lucky' Tiger, you can survive many hits. I've sat at a V-base before through multiple precision bomb drops, and lanc carpet bombings, and lived long enough for the VHs to pop (probably about 5 minutes of continuous bombing) and be able to get supplies and land.

It's not normal, but it's the only tank that will survive a 1000lb bomb.

i get lucky all the time spikes... its not luck its skill

[Nemisis]

BAR, skill will let you get 5 kills before your turret gets damaged, it DOESN'T keep your turret from getting damaged though. Skill has nothing to do with how the other guy aims, or how dice land (as far as ricochets and damage dealt). Thats completely out of your hands, and you can't affect it regardless of you do. I suppose you could argue that your near misses will rattle the other guy, but if they do, then he likely isn't a good tanker.

[715]

The T-34/85's cannon begins to have some effect on the tiger at around 1600yds (I say 1700yds to give myself some lee way), the M4A3(76)'s at 1300yds, and the panzer's at 1100ys. You can turret them outside of this range, but you are very unlikely to come right out and kill them. This is all from personaly expierence (I'm not so obsessed that I test every cannon in the offline arena), and so may be wrong. But I'm willing to bet that its not far off.

I am sufficiently obsessed.. well at least to test T34/85 vs Tiger offline.  The T34/85 does nothing whatsoever to the Tiger frontal armor at 1400 (AP or HVAP).  At 1200 the HVAP can just barely penetrate the turret, but will not take it out.  The AP still just bounces off.  The Tiger can vaporize the T34/85 frontal armor at much longer ranges.  (The Tiger is vulnerable to the T34/85 at longer ranges for side or rear shots of course.)

[Chalenge]

A Tiger used well is a great tank. A Tiger used poorly is no better than any other tank. There is nothing magical going on and there doesnt appear to be anything that needs to be fixed. But if you have documentation that gives evidence that something is out of adjustment then please enlighten us all.

[hlbly]

You mean like 75mm/L70? The second number is the barrel length in shell diameters, not the length of the round. (Thous longer barrel and longer round (due to more propellant) often go hand in hand.

And that's what I meant by "caliber isn't everything". It's not only how big your projectile is, but also how fast it is moving (and the design of the round, material quality, and so on.)
The whole thing is a rather complex one... bigger diameter projectiles can indeed often overpower armor (particularly sloped armor) than more powerful, but smaller ones. Shots may penetrate at close & long range, but not in between, due to rounds shattering on the armor at certain ranges...

My bad it is barrel length not round . heheh I think it is still expressed in calibers . Snailman do you know if case hardening is modeled ? If all steel is the same in game thats a huge variable not to model .

[hlbly]

A Tiger used well is a great tank. A Tiger used poorly is no better than any other tank. There is nothing magical going on and there doesnt appear to be anything that needs to be fixed. But if you have documentation that gives evidence that something is out of adjustment then please enlighten us all.

A tiger thats turret face is so easy to kill is poorly modeled .

[321BAR]

BAR, skill will let you get 5 kills before your turret gets damaged, it DOESN'T keep your turret from getting damaged though. Skill has nothing to do with how the other guy aims, or how dice land (as far as ricochets and damage dealt). Thats completely out of your hands, and you can't affect it regardless of you do. I suppose you could argue that your near misses will rattle the other guy, but if they do, then he likely isn't a good tanker.

im sorry to say this but you CAN affect all of that. its simple, use the tiger correctly. Yeah the turrets slow, so when pointing your tiger to the enemy when far off point the side to the enemy so when shot at you can roll away faster. when in close switch to the frontal armor. All my tigers die from other tigers or planes and the rare firefly if i dont kill it first...

[4deck]

Please leave the tigers as they are.

[Chalenge]

A tiger thats turret face is so easy to kill is poorly modeled .

If you use a tiger correctly and point the front to the enemy (protecting the lower weaker point with terrain or what have you) it is pretty much unkillable. Outside of that if you keep moving the enemy cant make use of your weaker points unless you are outnumbered which is the way it should be. Every tank in the game can die to one shot or one bomb despite the way people think about GVs.