Author Topic: P51 & FWa5 comparitive tests (Read 1615 times)

Hangtime · « **Reply #30 on:** June 26, 2000, 01:22:00 AM »

<punt>

Anybody get any testing in over the weekend?

juzz · « **Reply #31 on:** June 26, 2000, 03:42:00 AM »

All tests at 10,000ft(A1), 100% fuel, 6 guns, WEP.

250mph IAS climbrate.
P-51D: 2150fpm
Fw 190A-5: 1750fpm
P-38L: 2000fpm

Starting at 250mph IAS, 30 second speed.
P-51D: 285mph
Fw 190A-5: 277mph
P-38L: 280mph

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 06-26-2000).]

RAM · « **Reply #32 on:** June 26, 2000, 06:29:00 AM »

Sorry lephturn...didnt intend to make this as an offense.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 06-26-2000).]

Lephturn · « **Reply #33 on:** June 26, 2000, 02:09:00 PM »

Ram, Stop wasting screen space with drivel. If you are going to say nothing, at least have the decency not to quote the entire previous post for no good reason. If you really are "learning", the best way to do it is to open ears and close mouth.

Hangtime:

You seem to be talking about low-speed zoom and airframe stability at low speed. I don't think these will necessarily be reflected in the normal climb rate. With it's excellent accelleration characteristics at low speed, I would expect the FW to be a great low-speed zoomer. However, I wouldn't expect it to be so stable at low airspeeds. I have nothing to compare it with though. I do remember that the Hog was too stable at low speed early on, but that got fixed. If there is an issue with the FW-A5, I'm sure Pyro will examine it and do the right thing.

More data!

I'll try to get time to do some tests as well. Some accelleration figures from low speeds I think would be much more applicable to the situation you describe Hang. Something from 110 mph to 200 would be an interesting test. I'll bet the A5 kicks bellybutton in this department, but we'll see.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/

"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
- Steve Earl

jmccaul · « **Reply #34 on:** June 26, 2000, 02:17:00 PM »

Hey man you've got to gloat

wells · « **Reply #35 on:** June 26, 2000, 03:28:00 PM »

Ok, go here for climb/acceleration comparisons.
http://www.iaw.com/~general6/ah_climb.htm

It's not a complete set of data yet, but the 190a5 and P-51 are complete. It looks like 250 mph is the magic number where the 51 becomes superior.

Hangtime · « **Reply #36 on:** June 26, 2000, 06:30:00 PM »

Thanks Wells.! Bless you.. u get one 'get outta furball free' card.

The way the MA 1v1 fights are shaking down bear that out.. the FW can crawl right around the circle on the pony at low speed... and I can eat him fer breakfast if I stay faster and keep the E. I kill 'em like zekes.

The question is now 'How does this compare with the historical data?' From both perspectives.. test data and the subjective observations from pilots of the period assigned to that task.

Lepth, I know if there is a problem Pyro will fix it.. damn it's all new stuff. And I ain't even convinced there is a problem... Lets see if somebody's got access to the RL data for comparison against Well's data. And yer too right.. platform stability at high AOA and close to stall speeds on the A4 is gonna be a question too.

WTG guys.. we on the right track.

Hang

juzz · « **Reply #37 on:** June 27, 2000, 01:58:00 AM »

One thing I don't like about the Fw 190 in AH is that you get way too much stall warning. From what I've read, the aircraft gave little to no warning at all before the aircraft dropped one wing suddenly in a stall. In AH when pulling a hard turn, you get more than a second of stall horn before the aircraft flips over.

Citabria · « **Reply #38 on:** June 27, 2000, 02:17:00 AM »

the fw190 should stall like the original AH p-38L lol!

now that was a nasty stall

heck its still nasty stall on p38

but the 190 is totally easy to recover from even worse stalls

190 should flip upside down in a stall in a heartbeat but that simply does not happen with AH 190s

Daff · « **Reply #39 on:** June 27, 2000, 05:29:00 AM »

Wells' data actually looks pretty much spot on. THe P-51D should suffer at low speed. (Which is does) and improve (relativly to other planes) at higher speeds.
Now..if we could only get the paddlebladed-prop for the P-47 <G>.

Daff

------------------
CO, 56th Fighter Group
"This is Yardstick. Follow me"

Fishu · « **Reply #40 on:** June 27, 2000, 05:36:00 AM »

What I remember from reading books and documents, it is told that P-51 was fairly slow accerlating, when Messers and Fockes were from top of the line in accerlating.
Focke weren't such fast accerlator as Bf, of course, but it did that faster than P-51, alot faster.
Note: Top speed is not related to accerlation or vice-versa.

Lephturn · « **Reply #41 on:** June 27, 2000, 09:06:00 AM »

Great data Wells!

One note. The Jug lives and dies on it's WEP. I'd bet that with WEP the Jug may actually move up a notch or two on the list compared to some of the others. It would be really interesting to re-do these tests with WEP, and with say 50% gas. Nobody in their right mind engages in a Jug with full fuel! Pony either for that matter. Fuel loads will make a big difference in the arena.

Just some more to think about.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com

"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 06-27-2000).]

funked · « **Reply #42 on:** June 27, 2000, 09:30:00 AM »

With full internal fuel, the P-51D is 2000 lb heavier than the Fw 190A-5. At sea-level, the horsepower is almost identical. It should be obvious to you people what is going to happen if these two drag race from a slow speed!

About the stalls, I've read it both ways. Some reports of a sudden wing drop, some guys saying the plane gave plenty of warning. One thing that seems consistent is that the 190 recovered by neutralizing the stick.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 06-27-2000).]

popeye · « **Reply #43 on:** June 27, 2000, 09:32:00 AM »

"Fuel loads will make a big difference in the arena."

I gather that 100% fuel was used for these tests to be consistent with other published data. (?)

Seems like comparison testing for MA performance might be better done using equal range, or equal endurance, fuel loads rather than maximum. Then again, it might just get more complicated.

popeye

F4UDOA · « **Reply #44 on:** June 27, 2000, 10:23:00 AM »

Hey,

Put my money where my mouth is and did some calcs on accelleration of FW-190A5 vrs F4U-1D in real world physics model with the help of Wells (OK, he did the math). Take a look.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/004149.html

Thanx
F4UDOA