Brewster

[321BAR]

Hey guys, i was thinking...since we have the Brewster B-239 model the Finns used, why not add the Brewster Buffalo F2A-2 and F2A-3 models also? This will stop the constant whining that the B-239 is "overmodeled" and "flies better than zeros"...

[Wmaker]

F2A-2 didn't see combat and F2A-3 saw far too little combat to be a viable addition.

If there's going to be a new Brewster variant it should IMO be a Dutch B339. That way we'd get a new country into AH's planeset roster and have a variant which generally saw more action.

And clueless and ignorant individuals whining about something isn't really a good reason to add or remove planes from the planeset.

[321BAR]

F2A-2 didn't see combat and F2A-3 saw far too little combat to be a viable addition.

If there's going to be a new Brewster variant it should IMO be a Dutch B339. That way we'd get a new country into AH's planeset roster and have a variant which generally saw more action.

And clueless and ignorant individuals whining about something isn't really a good reason to add or remove planes from the planeset.

the F2A-3 IS the 339 though. the only difference truly is just a country designation... And it would expand early war scenario options such as Japan versus the Dutch and Commonwealth forces

[jimson]

F2A-2 didn't see combat and F2A-3 saw far too little combat to be a viable addition.

Which model saw action at Midway?

Where pilot accounts said the Zero turned circles around it, the Wildcat was far superior, it did not belong in combat and anyone sent out in one should be considered lost before they even get airborne?

These type of historical accounts are why so many think it is over modeled, that if the Buffalo was so poor, no variation could possibly be so dramatically better.

[Wmaker]

the F2A-3 IS the 339 though. the only difference truly is just a country designation...

False. Go do some reading.

Which model saw action at Midway?

Where pilot accounts said the Zero turned circles around it, the Wildcat was far superior, it did not belong in combat and anyone sent out in one should be considered lost before they even get airborne?

These type of historical accounts are why so many think it is over modeled, that if the Buffalo was so poor, no variation could possibly be so dramatically better.

<sigh> Yes that is why people think it is overmodelled, instead of using their heads and looking a bit further.

[Saxman]

maker,

From what I understand, the 239 and 339C/D used by the Dutch were close enough in performance that the 239 does make an adequate stand-in. Incidentally, HTC apparently still considers the Brewster an American bird on the AHWiki.

jimson,

The F2A-3 saw action at Midway.

I stated this in the Brewster thread on Aircraft and Vehicles, but the best way to cover as many variants as possible with the fewest aircraft would be:

B-239 - Serves as the Finnish 239 and the Dutch 339C/D
F2A-3 - Serves as the US F2A-3 and British/Commonwealth 339E

[pwnorris]

From Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Buffalo

[321BAR]

False. Go do some reading.

339E. forgot that. F2A-3 was like the 339E. both were not as maneuverable as the 339C/D variants or the 239. but they were all close in comparison (except an approx 900lb difference between the F2A-2/B-239/B339C or D and the F2A-3/B339E). i just want the F2A-3 to make a more historical accuracy between the two.

a.k.a. strap a 1,000 lb bomb to the Brewster we have and you have the F2A-3

[gyrene81]

F2A-2 didn't see combat and F2A-3 saw far too little combat to be a viable addition.

If there's going to be a new Brewster variant it should IMO be a Dutch B339. That way we'd get a new country into AH's planeset roster and have a variant which generally saw more action.

And clueless and ignorant individuals whining about something isn't really a good reason to add or remove planes from the planeset.

Well, considering there were only 44 total B-239s ever built, adding the most produced model F2A-3 would be justifiable. And yes, F2A-2's did see some combat in the form of British and Dutch B-339s, in Crete (RAF 805 Sqd.), Suriname, Burma and Singapore. Adding the Dutch units would be a bit more complex since they had slightly mixed bag. 72 F2A-2/B-339B airframes stripped down to export specs were ordered in 1940 and they had to order the engines separately. Can't remember which model, rebuilt R-1820-G105A 1200hp (?) and R-1820-G205A 1100hp (?) DC-3 engines maybe. Sometime in 1941 they ordered another 20 and got F2A-3/B-439s with rebuilt R-1820-G2 1000hp engines.

The British units were also a mixed bag of F2A-2/B-339Es though slightly less stripped/modified than they were for the Finnish and Dutch units.




321BAR, the B-439 was the export designation of the F2A-3.

F2A-3 (Brewster Model B-439): Third production model. Similar to the F2A-2 but with self-sealing fuel tanks with increased capacity, additional armor protection, and redesigned canopy and nose section. An order for 108 aircraft was placed on 21 January 1941 with deliveries beginning in July 1941. The increased weight due to the additional armor protection resulted in instability and handling difficulties.

[hlbly]

F2A-2 didn't see combat and F2A-3 saw far too little combat to be a viable addition.

If there's going to be a new Brewster variant it should IMO be a Dutch B339. That way we'd get a new country into AH's planeset roster and have a variant which generally saw more action.

And clueless and ignorant individuals whining about something isn't really a good reason to add or remove planes from the planeset.

Why is any question concerning a plane got to be labeled a whine ? Wmaker . I got a hunch , the record of the buffalo in your country mens hands had alot more to do with comparative pilot skill then plane performance . I have just got a stop watch but I think we are going to have more whines from more clueless morons after I make a few acceleration tests . Comparing the buff and the F4U4 in level flight . Ok some quick results at 1000 feet alt . The f4u4 was about 1.5 seconds faster from 150 to 250 as with . I tried to make things as simple as possible , all tests are 1kalt auto level on combat trim on . It lost by about 3 seconds to a spixteen . It beat the A8 by 3 seconds or more . Does that sound right to anyone ?  Would like to see other members of the community try it . Snailman can I get mine with charts ?

[Wmaker]

Well, considering there were only 44 total B-239s ever built, adding the most produced model F2A-3 would be justifiable.

B239s fought from June '41 'till Jan '45 scoring 477 victories (give or take a few) and flew on average 448h per plane. AFAIK F2A-3s took part in exactly two aerial combats. At that point, production numbers are completely and utterly irrelevant. Especially considering the already bloated US planeset compared to the other countries.

And yes, F2A-2's did see some combat in the form of British and Dutch B-339s, in Crete (RAF 805 Sqd.), Suriname, Burma and Singapore. Adding the Dutch units would be a bit more complex since they had slightly mixed bag. 72 F2A-2/B-339B airframes stripped down to export specs were ordered in 1940 and they had to order the engines separately. Can't remember which model, rebuilt R-1820-G105A 1200hp (?) and R-1820-G205A 1100hp (?) DC-3 engines maybe. Sometime in 1941 they ordered another 20 and got F2A-3/B-439s with rebuilt R-1820-G2 1000hp engines.

Like I said, F2A-2s didn't see combat. B339 is a B339 and F2A-2 is a F2A-2 even though they are related.

[Wmaker]

Why is any question concerning a plane got to be labeled a whine ?

No need to try put words in my mouth. BAR mentioned on the constant whining and I just said like it is. There's no need to do anything based on whining, except have fun on the whiners' expense.

I have just got a stop watch but I think we are going to have more whines from more clueless morons after I make a few acceleration tests . Comparing the buff and the F4U4 in level flight .

Oh so it accelerates to fast now I see.  

Well, have fun testing.

[hlbly]

Which model saw action at Midway?

Where pilot accounts said the Zero turned circles around it, the Wildcat was far superior, it did not belong in combat and anyone sent out in one should be considered lost before they even get airborne?

These type of historical accounts are why so many think it is over modeled, that if the Buffalo was so poor, no variation could possibly be so dramatically better.

My problem is ,that only in Finn hands ,against the Russians did it do any good at all . One version vs 1 enemy , It is a bad machine . Against anyone else in any other hands it was slaughtered .

[Wmaker]

My problem is ,that only in Finn hands ,against the Russians did it do any good at all . One version vs 1 enemy , It is a bad machine . Against anyone else in any other hands it was slaughtered .

This is exactly what I mean by the clueless and ignorant.

[lyric1]

I want a silver one & a black one please.