Author Topic: Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...  (Read 681 times)

Offline Tr1gg22

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Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...
« on: June 08, 2010, 08:28:51 PM »
Read this... I can not believe how dumb our grandparents were....

BOSTON – State and federal officials worked Tuesday to decontaminate a clam boat anchored in isolation off

Massachusetts after it dredged up old munitions containing mustard gas, severely sickening a crewman.

The Coast Guard was trying to locate the two military shells, which the crew tossed overboard in about 60 feet of water about 45 miles south of

Long Island, said Coast Guard Petty Officer James Rhodes. He acknowledged finding the shells will be difficult.

The military used the ocean as a dumping ground for munitions from after

World War II through 1970. While the tons of old chemical weapons in offshore waters present a danger to fishermen, experts don't believe they are a possible source of weapons for terrorists.

The Atlantic City, N.J.-based vessel was fishing Sunday in a charted munitions dumping zone, but the designation is just a warning and carries no fishing restrictions, Rhodes said.

The two shells — about a foot long and three inches in diameter — came aboard in a haul of clams. The Coast Guard believes one of the shells cracked or otherwise leaked its contents.

On Tuesday, a

National Guard team boarded the vessel, the ESS Pursuit, to test for contamination, while the Coast Guard worked to secure the ship in waters off New Bedford so that it can be moored and decontaminated. The captain and first mate have declined to leave the 145-foot dragger, fearing it could run aground, the Coast Guard said.

The boat had returned to New Bedford early Monday after one of its six crewmen, Konstantin Burndshov, reported blistering and

shortness of breath.

Hours later, another crewman was brought ashore after he reported feeling lightheaded. He was examined and released. Two other crewmen left the boat late Monday, with one reporting nose and eye irritation.

Burndshov had painful blisters about three-quarters of an inch high on an arm and a leg, said Dr. Edward Boyer, a toxicologist who is treating the man at UMass Memorial Medical Center in

Worcester.

Boyer suspected exposure to mustard gas, used most frequently during

World War I, given Burndshov's telltale symptoms: blistering and the onset of his symptoms about 24 hours after exposure. On Monday night, blood and urine tests confirmed the diagnosis. Boyer said even though Burndshov was wearing protective clothing, including oil skins and elbow-length gloves, the mustard gas still penetrated to his skin.

"It literally pulls the top of the skin off the layer underneath it," Boyer said. The doctor said Burndshov was "handling it very well," and Burndshov was listed in good condition at

UMass Memorial.

The Defense Department began using the ocean as a dumping ground for chemical and conventional munitions after

World War II. The military says it stopped in 1970, and two years later Congress banned waste disposal in oceans, including chemical weapons.

Officials say it's impossible to know exactly how much and what type of weapons have been dumped in the ocean because of incomplete records. A 2001 Army report found 74 past instances of ocean disposal — 32 off U.S. shores and 42 off foreign coasts. For example, in 1967 the Army dumped 4,577 one-ton containers of a mustard agent and 7,380 sarin rockets off the

New Jersey shore, according to Army records.

Only some of the ocean dumps were mapped, and chemical munitions have been found in areas they weren't supposed to have been dumped, such as just a few miles off

Hawaii, said Craig Williams of the Chemical Weapons Working Group, a Kentucky-based organization.

In 1976, a fisherman in Hawaii was burned after bringing up a mortar round filled with mustard gas. A mustard gas-filled artillery shell was found in Delaware in 2004 after it was dredged up by a clam boat off New Jersey and remained intact after being sent through a crusher that was making clamshell driveway fill. Three bomb disposal experts were injured dismantling it.

Mustard gas, also called sulphur mustard, is usually not a gas at all, but a thick, odorless and colorless liquid that turns solid in temperatures over 58 degrees. It looks brown when mixed with other chemicals and has a garlic-like smell.

Mustard gas can be deadly if it's used as an aerosol and inhaled, causing blisters and other problems in the lungs. More frequently, it's used to weaken the enemy by forcing them to devote men and resources to get incapacitated victims off the battlefield and into care, said Dr. Steve Bird, an associate professor at the University of Massachusetts Medical School and a chemical weapons expert.

The gas was used most frequently during World War I, but has been used sporadically since, including during the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s, he said. The chemical retains its potency over time, though some of its components break down, he said.

"The stuff still works just the same, and is still as toxic as it was before," Bird said.

The tons of chemical weapons underwater are an extremely unlikely source of weapons for terrorists, Williams said, given the difficulty in locating them, uncertainty about the hazards they present in an inevitably deteriorated condition and the fact that other dangerous chemicals are more readily available.

"That's pretty far-fetched," he said. "If I'm a terrorist and I want to use chemical weapons, I can go to 16 hardware stores and get the stuff I need to make it, rather than be trolling around in the middle of the ocean."
Wow who mad these brilliant decisions :mad:
"CO" of the Wobblin Gobblins...

Offline oakranger

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Re: Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2010, 08:38:31 PM »
Not lest bit surprise how they dump all sort of stuff into the sea.  You can thank former President Richard Nixon for passing the most environmental laws, acts and agencies to stop most of the crap we done.
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Offline oneway

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Re: Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2010, 09:07:13 PM »
When you guys invent the time machine you can load up your hindsight and head back to save the world...and you can do it over and over again...

For now...and rather...focus the depth and breadth of your intellect on preempting the mistakes of today that armchair quarterbacks in 30 years will similarly brand as the 'stupidity' of a generation...

Unless and of course you invent that time machine...and in that case, please pick up a sporting almanac from 2020 while your at it...

Move along and move on...

Out

Oneway

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Offline Motherland

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Re: Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2010, 09:11:38 PM »
Stupidity was invented about 20 years ago. Before that there was no such thing, any decisions made were better than the alternative, I'd like to see what you would have done in the situation, you nonsense youngsters don't understand how good things were back then, you just ruin everything that the previous generation built up for you, etc. etc.

Offline Tr1gg22

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Re: Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2010, 09:18:24 PM »
Stupidity was invented about 20 years ago. Before that there was no such thing, any decisions made were better than the alternative, I'd like to see what you would have done in the situation, you nonsense youngsters don't understand how good things were back then, you just ruin everything that the previous generation built up for you, etc. etc.

Well I guess  your one of the guilty geniuses aparantley :noid  We ruin stuff that our previous generations built for us?... U mean we invented nuclear waste and dumped chemical weapons in the ocean for the next generations to have to deal with? Yep that makes a lot of sense :O.. Motherland for Pres :eek:
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 09:22:05 PM by Tr1gg22 »
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Offline Motherland

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Re: Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2010, 09:19:13 PM »
Well I guess  your one of the guilty geniouses aparantley :noid  We ruin stuff that our previous generations built for us?... U mean we invented nuclear waste and dumped chemical weapons in the ocean for the next generations to have to deal with? Yep that makes a lot of sense :O.. Motherland for Pres :eek:
thats the joke.jpg
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« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 09:23:54 PM by Motherland »

Offline BoilerDown

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Re: Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2010, 09:22:46 PM »
God forbid anyone think the WW2 generation did anything stupid on these forums.  Anyways, I don't see why they couldn't go a bit further and dump everything off the continental shelf instead of where they ended up.  I think that's a little bit of foresight anyone could have had, even 60 years ago.
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Offline oneway

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Re: Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2010, 09:26:10 PM »
And other than pointing out the obvious that prior generations and their lack of the hindsight of future generations accomplishes what?

I can assure you that events today will fall victim to the same sort of fractured circular logic 30 years from now...

It is pointless (no pun intended) to point out the failings of past generations for the sake of blame...

Make a difference today...so you can make a difference tomorrow...just try and do it with your brain instead of a government crutch...

Out

Oneway

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2010, 09:26:49 PM »
Hindsight is always 20/20.  I bet there are many things each generation would do differently if they could come back alive, time warp back to their days of living, and do over.

Anyone want to bet just what those things would be changed if they could???
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline oneway

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Re: Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2010, 09:30:10 PM »
Stupidity is Fractal in terms of time and generation...and independent in its magnitude...

The exact same (perceptive) level of stupidity is being committed today...

Pretending that we are more cognitive today is fallacy...

The same level of errors are occurring right now...if you need a link to the BP well head let me know...

Out

Oneway

Offline bj229r

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Re: Wow What a bunch of Idiots we had back in the day...
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2010, 07:19:41 AM »
I lived in Tampa back in the 90's when they were shutting down air bases left and right. When it became known that MacDill was on the list, the realty people had a wet dream, until the point came up that soldiers had been dumping av gas and oil on the ground there since the 1930's, and with current law, whoever buys the land will become fiscally responsible for the cleanup. Then hurricane Andrew wiped Homestead off the map, and it became a moot point
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

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